What if we could be more successful and less stressed? If only it were that easy!

Author Jennifer Peavey says the answer is actually all around us. In this episode, she tells us how to tap into nature to create the life we want.

 

Julie Holton:

Welcome to the show, I’m Julie Holton here with Audrea Fink and Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris. We are your Think Tank of Three. Now we’ve all heard that a full moon means trouble. Nurses swear by this. And I’ve definitely blamed mercury retrograde for tech problems. And I don’t know maybe some mood swings here or there. Not that I ever have mood swings. But ladies, I got to say that the science and structure behind the ideas we’re talking about today, it’s fascinating to me.

Audrea Fink:

I’m really excited. I love when science and intuition kind of come together. So this topic is really, really fun. Our guest today has an interesting background in engineering, design and innovation. Jennifer Peavey has her master’s degree in industrial design and two degrees in chemical engineering. She also journeyed from corporate life back to academia and recently to author with her new book, Natural Reflectors.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

Here’s an excerpt about the book. Natural Reflectors explores the idea of how we can instill in our actions, a mindset of intentional reflection taken from the power of nature’s cycles. We can look to nature for inspiration and with practice, make it our approach to life. Jennifer Peavey, welcome to the show.

Jennifer Peavey:

Oh ladies, I am so excited to be here. What a great introduction, you all have got me very excited.

Julie Holton:

We’re excited. Jennifer, I so love this idea of looking to nature to avoid burnout. I know during the lockdown, during the shutdown part of the pandemic, there were times when I just walked outside in my bare feet to put my feet in the dirt and in the grass. And just look around at the flowers and take in the fresh breeze. And I felt like I was a little insane in the moment because I just needed that nature break. But I had heard that like literally putting your feet in the dirt helps you reconnect to the nature around us. And so, there’s just this idea of using nature to avoid burnout. Like before we get to that insane feeling, seems like such a cool idea to me.

Now you’re almost an accidental author of sorts. And I think the story of how you came to write this book is almost just as interesting as the concepts inside the book. So tell us about your journey.

Jennifer Peavey:

So yes, I’d be absolutely glad to talk about my journey. I was really excited to hear you talk about going out during the pandemic and connecting physically with nature. On a way of connecting out of what you were going through. I also went into the pandemic … or the pandemic didn’t necessarily put it on me, but I went into the pandemic burnout. I had gone through a corporate job, I did take a year off or a year in academia just to be able to feed myself. But I wasn’t really sure where I was going or what I was going to do. I was trying to figure that out and I was about to go back into applying it in the workforce and then the pandemic happened. And that is not the time period to have been unemployed or the time to be searching.

Julie Holton:

Oh my gosh, what the time to start the job application process? When the world shuts down.

Jennifer Peavey:

And nobody knows what they’re going to do for themselves, much less, whether they’re going to pick up somebody new. And I had had this buried background. So even what I was offering was a little unusual. I had engineering, I had this innovation management and design. And I always felt like that I had more to bring to the table. So I didn’t want to just silo myself into one of those areas, I wanted to bring all of me to the table. So it was not the job descriptions that were being put out there, even at the time period. So I was needing to be able to spend time talking with people and networking with people and it just was not happening with the pandemic.

So I wanted to be able to try to understand how to differentiate myself. And I really had to go back to almost fundamentals of saying, what was I doing? What was I trying to do? And really, after a while, the question was, what did I want to do? When I would look back, I would feel like I spent most of my career doing whatever had been presented to me saying, “Okay, well, that’s a great opportunity. Let’s go with it.” But I had never asked the question about whether I really wanted to do it.

And so part of it was go back to different types of processes. Each of those careers had a different way of doing things and they often did not get along. If you’ve ever seen highly technical people trying to deal with highly creative people, you can only imagine that nice scientific method and then some sort of creative that you assume is all over the place is going to be there. And so I felt like I needed to start and create a brand new process just for me. That allowed me to have elements of all three, that allowed me to maximize on what I was able to do.

I happened to be following a couple of women who were taking modern management practices and mixing them with ancient wisdom. And this is part of where the moon came into things. Where these women were following the cycles of the moon. And I said, “Well, okay, let me give that a try. A little woo woo, a little crazy. But let me give this a try.” At least it was something very different and I knew it would keep me from falling into old patterns and give me a chance to think in a different way.

So I ended up looking at the moon as a time piece. So I didn’t necessarily think that it was changing what I was doing, although I might argue that now. But at the time I said, “Okay, when the moon is new, when there’s not a lot of light. I was going to spend more time thinking and dreaming and trying to consider what could be.” And as there became more light, when we get to the full moon. There would be a lot more action. So while it might not be emotionally crazy, it was crazy. Because I had all these to-do list. And then as it went back to the new moon, I would start saying, “Okay, well how did that work?” And I would spend more time thinking as I went through that.

I went through a couple of cycles of doing that. And I found that I had a sense of control. Like you said about going out and actually physically touching the ground with your toes made you feel connected. At least for me was getting connected outside of myself. I wasn’t spending the pandemic going, “Oh my God, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? What am I going to do?” The fact that the moon was always there, it got me out of my head. And allowed me to see that there was a world outside of me and gave me hope. And then as I went through cycles and I would dream and make promises to myself and I would follow through on those promises. I would make sure, because I knew since it was only a moon cycle, it’d be a small enough bite that I could fulfill those promises. And so there was this level of self trust that I was starting to develop.

And those were the things that were helping me get out of this burnout. I wanted to engage with life again because I was seeing some success and I was seeing that I could believe in me.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

Wow. It’s really interesting. So you used moon phases … I’m going to reiterate what you just said. So you use new moon for plan, full moon for act, new moon for review-

Jennifer Peavey:

Right.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

Plan, act, review. Which in and of itself, when you just lay it out, just like that, the ancient thinking that she was saying goes with the moon phases. But plan, act, review is very stable.

It’s very, that’s a scientific plan. Plan, act, review. So I think that’s pretty awesome. For many people, taking that pause during the pandemic it made them realize how close they were to burnout. Others felt that burnout because of the pandemic.

So based on the model that you just laid out, new moon, full moon, new moon. Plan, act review. How would you suggest to other people who are like, “Okay, look, I’m not really feeling the whole moon action. But maybe there is another nature realm.” How would you suggest people can use nature to stop the cycle that leads to complete meltdown?

Jennifer Peavey:

Yes. And I completely agree, the moon may not be it. I guess being an engineer, I’m always about metaphors. And so I think that would be the thing is trying to see and explore what might resonate with an individual. I do a lot around light. So I also, now I’m looking at the seasons and saying that in the winter, because it’s darker, I spend more time dreaming. And the spring, I try new things because everything is growing new. And in the summer, there’s more light, so there’s lots and lots of action. And in the fall, I start harvesting and pulling back to eventually go back to dreaming.

So it might be that part of it is time scale. I think the most important thing is to find some sort of cycle that allows you to have time where you think and a time where you act. Because I think if we’re constantly in action and constantly pushing, that’s where we get lost or we start falling into the autopilot. And I like to say the reflection, what it does, whatever metaphor resonates for a person. It’s almost like driving down a road.

And so here’s maybe another way of looking at it rather than just nature. Where I am is in the Eastern United States and the Appalachian Mountains aren’t far from me. And when we get up in there, it’s an old set of mountains. So the roads are really, really old and there’s lots and lots of turns within them. So if you’re driving down that road and you’ve got a cliff going off to your right, and you’ve got this mountain going up to your left. You need to pay attention. And you’re looking at the car behind you and you’re checking out how close your car to the front of you. You’re checking the signs. You might even check in with your body, how awake do I feel? Do I need to stop over and get some coffee? Oh, wait a minute. Here’s a sign that tells me that all of a sudden there’s going to be this steep incline, I need to pay attention.

So [what] reflection gives you are those things where you’re checking in, saying, “Okay, I need to turn. I need to stay on the road.” It’s whatever you need to do to stay in the lane. Because if you can stay in the lane, you’re going to keep going and you’re going to get to your destination. You might be going slower than you anticipated, but at least you’re still going. When you lose that or you’re distracted by something on the phone or you’re day dreaming about an argument you had with somebody, that’s when you end up off the road. And I think that’s where burnout can be. You’re either on the side of the road or heaven forbid you’ve gone off the cliff. If one of those has happened, reflection then also allows you a moment to say, “Where am I? And was it going to take to motivate me to get back up on that road?” And so yes, it might be nature or there might be another metaphor that resonates with somebody.

Julie Holton:

Jennifer, what is really resonating with me is, especially during the pandemic, it just became so clear to us. As the three of us have been talking on The Think Tank of Three, that we have such a culture that glorifies the grind. And suddenly during the pandemic, it’s like, “Well, wait a minute. You can’t grind, but you’re supposed to.” And then a lot of people just felt stuck without really a way to figure out how to get unstuck. And also not wanting the grind, I think that’s been one thing for me as an entrepreneur that I have struggled with. I’ve always been a hard worker, I’ve always been an overachiever because I’m a hard worker. And so there are days when I do work around the clock and I love every minute of it. But there are also days when I don’t want to work around the clock.

And so I’ve had this constant push pull of wanting to do it when I want to do it. But not wanting to do it because I have to do it or because anyone else is telling me I have to do it. And it seems like we have two core messages out there right now, especially for women. That one of those messages is, just keep grinding, just keep making it happen, push through it. And then we have this other message of self care and avoid burnout. But without any real tangible tactics to get from one to the other. And what I love about what you’re saying with this word reflection, it’s all about this area in between. Where you avoid the burnout by taking those times to pause. And not just pause because you’re dead tired and don’t want to work anymore or can’t work anymore. But because it’s time to reflect on what’s working and what needs to change. And even embracing that those changes and transitions are a positive thing.

Jennifer Peavey:

And I think that what we underestimate is how much we are changing all the time. Even if it is, we feel stuck. We may be becoming more stuck. Whatever is going on, we are looking at information as it comes in. And it’s either validating what we believe or it’s going to change it. And we can choose on whether we want it to change what we are thinking. But the idea that we’re going to need to reflect on what’s going on, try some things out and prototype it and then go back and reflect. I’m learning that’s a lifelong thing. It’s not just to get us out of burnout. It’s almost like, “Okay, every morning I need to get up and have breakfast, because that’s what the doctor says I’m supposed to do.” Or, “Every night I need to get a good night’s sleep.”

I am learning that that is something … maybe it’s just the mental health. But I think it’s also emotional and it’s the physical health. It’s making sure that I listen to my body. And all of that is something that we’ve never been taught. It’s almost like we’re supposed to look at ourselves as a machine and we’ve got this brain we’re carrying around in this machine. And then of course, when you wake up when you’re 50 and suddenly realize that your body’s betraying you and you don’t know exactly why. But like you say, I think it is a shift from either we’ve got to do something all the time or we do nothing. To, we need to maintain somewhere in between and determine what is it? We make choices. I think that’s one of my biggest things is we have a choice. And if we can claim that choice, there’s a lot of power in what we decide to do from there.

Audrea Fink:

I love that concept. I don’t think there’s anything more powerful than choice. You have a choice in how you respond, how you react, how you process. You don’t have a choice in what happens, you get to burnout. But you definitely have a choice in how you respond to other things.

You experienced your own time of burnout, you sort of hit that point of no return. What did you learn and how did you incorporate those lessons into your book?

Jennifer Peavey:

Well, I think a lot of it was listening and taking the time to build trust, were two of the main things that came out of it. And there’s lots of little details that come with that. But the big thing was being able to listen to my body. I had been very logical that engineer, I could logic into anything. But being able to stop and say, “How do I feel about that?” And it’s going back to that feeling with your gut, the basal ganglia on the back of your brain is what tells you at a summary of all your emotions. And when you have a number of different choices before you, you really cannot make a good decision. You can make a decision, you just can’t make a very good decision without knowing how you feel about those options.

And so there was a lot of time where I was listening to what the physical sensations were when I thought of certain things. And then I was able to say, “Okay, this is something that makes me happy because I relaxed.” Or there is something that makes me angry because there was this sharp pain. Or then there was a tension that was going on that was within there.

And so being able to listen to my body was able to help me be able to make better decisions. And once I was making decisions based upon my body telling me, or that little voice inside of me telling me, that’s where the trust started come in. Because then I learned, okay, as soon as I heard it, finally heard it. If I would act upon that and follow through, well then there was another level of trust or another level of vulnerability that my body would, or my insides or my little child, or what do you want to call it, then say, “Hey, this is what I really want to do.” And I can tell you today, I’m finally at a point that my entire life is full of things that I have chosen. I won’t tell you that I love everything about it. But I know I’ve chosen everything that is in my life.

Audrea Fink:

So how did you teach yourself to hear your body or feel your emotions? I think this is very, very common, today in the workforce, today with women, today with our society in general. As we are very comfortable in the science, we’re very comfortable in the logic, we’re very comfortable with intellectualizing what is happening. But we are very frequently dissociating what we are thinking and feeling from how we are physically feeling. How did you teach yourself to feel physically and recognize those emotions?

Jennifer Peavey:

And I think there were a few things that I did. I will readily admit in the beginning, there was dead silence in all of that. Mostly because that little child or that inner voice did not trust me at all, said, “You’re not going to listen. You’ve talked about this before and you don’t do it.” So there was a lot of, I’m going to sit here for a good five minutes or ten minutes and just listen. And it may have been just general.

I then did get to the point where I would ask a question that basically had a yes or no answer. Just to say, “Okay, we don’t have to get complicated, whether it’s fear or whether it’s anger. Let’s just say, do you like this or not?” And just get a yes or no. And figuring if we could build some trust that way. That took time. And there again, the third thing was, once I actually heard something to act upon it. And even if I didn’t understand fully, I might even say to myself, the more logic side saying, “Okay, I think this is what you said. If you don’t tell me differently, this is what I’m going to do because I want you to trust me.” And that probably took about four or six months before I could regularly get an answer.

So one prime example is I start every day with a practice. And one of the first questions I ask in that, as I check in, is what is my energy level? And if my energy level … and then I sign a number to it. And if it is at zero, I might as well be in the grave. That is just where things are. And if I’m at a hundred, then I’m just flying to the moon. And so I will ask for a number on saying, how do I feel about this? And what I like to do with that is be able to say, “Has it changed over the last few days?” If I’m below 50, there’s something wrong. I’m very likely sick and I need to have a lot of self care. But if it’s sitting pretty regularly at 70, that’s all fine. But if I suddenly jump up to 90 or if I jump down to 60, I want to know why. Because that tells me that either something great happened yesterday and I’d like to repeat it. Or something bad happened and maybe I need to do some self-care and it gives me some consistency.

So there’s something between the mind and the body in that. I often look at what the day before is, and I’ll say, “Okay, are we doing better or doing worse?” And that’ll kind of pair it up for my body to answer, yes or no. And I might even assign a number said, “Does that still feel good?” If it said it was better and I was sitting at 75 the day before, and I’ll say, “Okay, is 80 good?” And I might hear a yes or no. And I might say, “How about 85?” And so some of that helps me … instead of just immediately, there’s an answer. I’ll try to have a dialogue.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

We had a guest on a while back, Diane Lutz and she spoke about a book and a speaker that we had both seen before. And unfortunately I’m blanking on the book. But one of the things that the woman was discussing was the hell yes versus the yes versus the no. And if it wasn’t a hell yes, there was no reason to even consider extending bandwidth to whatever said thing was. So I find that very interesting.

Now in talking about the inner voice and listening to the inner voice, is there space and room? And how do you quiet the inner voice when the inner voice is telling you, “Oh no, no, no. That’s not for you. Oh no, no, no, you can’t do this. Oh, no, no, no.” Or just sending you negative energy. Not the energy of timeout, wait, make sure you thought this through. The, you can’t do this voice, which I have found myself listening to quite a bit.

Jennifer Peavey:

Absolutely. And I think that’s part of also the amount of trust is trying to understand which of those voices is talking to you. So I follow up with that energy level then with a question on, what am I grateful for? Just to try to stay positive and identify something positive. But directly to answer your question, my next one, I have a statement of faith. And what that really is about is saying, what is it that I am either nervous or uncomfortable with right now? Maybe even outright scared about.

And it might be something where my insides are buzzing. No, no, no, you don’t need to do that. There’s some sort of dissonance that’s going on and I’m trying to logic it through something and I can’t seem to do it. And I’ll want to talk through it and okay, why do I feel this way? Why is it coming in and is so strong? And why are you being so negative about it? What is it about it that you fear? Tell me what’s going on. Sometimes I’ve even said, trying to figure out if it’s connected with any particular age when I was a child. Is there a child throwing a temper tantrum? Which can happen.

And so it’ll be, what is going on? And I might even talk to that person, like they’re a five year old. And say, “Okay, well, let’s go do this.” So in that, I’ll go through and say, “Okay, what am I scared of?” But then I’ll flip it with a statement of faith saying, “You know what? I’m going to be fine with that.” Or, “I know that person in that meeting is going to yell at me today. What’s going through my head are all these thousands of things that I want to do to protect myself. And I’m going to go talk to these five people and make sure they’re on my side.” And I’ll go, “It’s going to be okay. If I can go in there and breathe beforehand, I’m going to be very calm, no matter what she does.” And I will talk myself through about the way I want the outcome to be. And it may or may not happen, but at least I have met that uncomfortable, scared, fear, whatever it is, head on and acknowledged that it existed. And then we can have a conversation about it.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

Honestly, it’s not even quieting. It’s actually giving that-

Space to breathe, letting it have it say-

Jennifer Peavey:

Yes.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

And then saying, “All right, you’ve said what you’ve said, you’ve had your moment. Let’s talk this through.”

Jennifer Peavey:

Exactly.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

Hear it, talk it through. Instead of ignoring it and acting like it’s not coming. It’s coming from somewhere-

Jennifer Peavey:

Exactly.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

Hear it, talk it through and then make a decision.

Jennifer Peavey:

And it had to be during the pandemic that I made that switch from, I must control it and I must stifle it. To now … and part of it was okay, just listening to my body. Am I scared? Am I whatever? Well, now it is get to the point of going, well, why are you scared? That’s the next level. It’s not just acknowledging the scared, it’s now, I’d like to do something about this. Who wants to be scared? Nobody wants to be scared. But it’s going to happen. And I’m just being honest with myself that it will.

Julie Holton:

So I’d like to give people just kind of a sneak peek at what this process might look like. Because-

Jennifer Peavey:

Sure.

Julie Holton:

Obviously the word reflection is such a big focus in your book, taking this time to pause. I think we talk about it actually a lot on this podcast. But what does that reflection time actually look like? Like you said, early on, as you’re listening to the inner voice, you might just sit there as you’re waiting to hear something. And I think that, it can be awkward when you don’t know, you’ve never done a process before. And so many motivational talks focus on action and not on reflection. So, what does this actually look like? If our listeners are taking that next step, what is this process?

Jennifer Peavey:

Sure. And I have this two different ways that we can look at it. We’ve got the practice itself where I’m checking in every day. Like I talked about the energy level and the grateful, and then what am I scared of? The fourth thing I look at is what do I need for that day? So there is a list there that says, what am I happy about? What do I need coaching on? And what do I need to do that day? So I get that level of self trust.

 And then I might actually journal from there, depending upon how things are feeling. If there’s just something I’d like to say to myself or something I’m noodling on. That might last about a half hour. I think the biggest thing about that is it happens at the same time every day. Almost like I’m going to have breakfast or I’m going to go to bed time every day. There’s something about being regular with it. So even if it’s five or ten minutes that somebody wants to spend doing it, there’s something about having a habit of being able to do that.

 Now I’ll be honest, it doesn’t happen every single day for me because things happened. You might wake up late or you wake up really early or get distracted or whatever it is. Things happen. But as long as it’s more days that it happens than not, that’s really the key to things, is just deciding. What’s been interesting now for me is it’s come to a point that, yeah, there are some days there’s a lot going on and I actually run into work time. Fortunately, I am a freelancer and I’m working for myself. So it’s not like I’ve got this nine to five job, where I’m supposed to be at a certain place at a certain time. I know that’s a luxury. But I do feel guilty, I still feel guilty about, oh, I went over half an hour. I should be starting whatever my work is.

 But I’ve learned to tell myself that this time is so crucial to me. For me to be able to perform better later, whatever the project is when I’m on or I’ve got my game face on, or my game day on. That if I have this time to myself or I get rid of these distractions, these negative things running through my head, I deal with them and I get them to move on. I am more focused and I am more powerful when I’m doing the things that are for other people or things I get paid for.

The second way of looking at this, that I like to call more my process. That first one is more my practice. My process, where I’m going with the moon and I’m reviewing the whole month, I will actually take the time. And it’s about three days. Part of it is reviewing, part of it then is claiming within the review, okay, these are the great things I did. I actually showed up. Or here’s the thing that I don’t feel great about and I need to forgive myself for it. Or here’s some wisdom that I learned. And I will take a moment to actually harvest those or cultivate those and see those as important things.

And then the next day I will spend dreaming about the next month or the next moon. The next time period, whatever you want to look at. And then the next day after that is actually planning those days and saying, “Okay, how am I going to work? What are the things I need to do to get to that action point?” If the full moon is that full action, well, I might need to do some research on the internet. I might need to go talk to somebody. I might need to order some things before I have that action actually happen. I’ll also contemplate about what is a reasonable bite for that month. Because that’s the problem for the engineer in me, I could plan like crazy. But that doesn’t mean I planned a bite that I could be successful with. And that I have to remember is as big a thing as anything, you were asking earlier, one of the things I learned was, I am only dealing with today’s bite. Or I like to say, today’s brick that I’m laying in that wall that I want to build.

Julie Holton:

That is so key. If your task list is too big for that day, you are waking up and setting yourself up to fail.

Jennifer Peavey:

Absolutely.

Julie Holton:

That’s been my big lesson lately. You just nailed it for me.

Jennifer Peavey:

Absolutely.

Julie Holton:

Your task list can’t be too big. That bite can’t be too big or you’re already setting yourself up for failure.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

She’d also said something with regards to wisdom. And it sent me to a saying that I recently saw and heard, there’s this company powerinblack.com t-shirts. And one of the statements, I read it out loud and I told my husband and he is like, “I need that t-shirt.” And it’s a Nelson Mandela quote and it says, “I never lose. I either win or I learn.”

Jennifer Peavey:

Oh nice.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

And I think that everything you’re saying just kind of encompasses, it goes along with the negative voice, I’m listening to you, I’m going to let you say what you need to say. But then I’m going to move on. And then going through the experience after you’ve gone through your whole process, whatever comes out of it is a win no matter what happens, it’s a win. Because you’re learning something from it, no matter what happens.

Jennifer Peavey:

And one of the things that I have learned in doing this, if you go back to, like you said, too many on the to-do list. When I dream, I like to say I have an intention. It is what I want to happen during that time period. But my expectations can be something completely different. And my expectations may be about specifically what that project was supposed to be, what was the outcome? Who was I supposed to meet? What color was it supposed to be? Something like that.

And I will get to the point when I reflect and I’ve learned to write down my intentions. But when I go back to reflect, I’ll find out that I always meet my intentions. I don’t always meet my expectations. And my expectations is the voice that tells me, “Oh, you failed because you didn’t do this and didn’t do that.” But when I write down my intentions and I see that I met them, I’m going, “I did it.” And I’m wanting to trust myself that, okay, I’ve got it. It’s going to work.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

I never lose.

Audrea Fink:

I love that.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

I either win or I learn.

Jennifer Peavey:

And that’s a shift in mindset. You have to really to say, “I’m going to learn and not fail.”

Audrea Fink:

So Jennifer, what’s your final message for women who are experiencing burnout or overwhelm right now?

Jennifer Peavey:

I think the biggest thing is to … at least for me, was to realize that you are worth the investment that it takes to get out of where you are. Because I think that was the biggest battle I had, was not only battling the grind, but letting the grind define myself worth. And to say that I am worth being happy, it is worth my time to invest on finding out what that is. And it’s worth whatever it is going to take to be able to get there and to give myself that space to be able to do it.

Julie Holton:

I’m leaving space for that to just breathe for a moment because … I mean, that’s a really big message to let sink in. And I think in our own unique ways, we all probably need to hear that. Or a piece of that.

Julie Holton:

Jennifer, if you ever start a mastermind or want to be a part of one, count me in because I feel like we could just continue this conversation all day, every day or maybe once a month. But this has just been really incredible. I am so appreciative for you being on the show today and sharing what you learned through your own journey of burnout. This has just been really, really insightful.

Before we go, we like to collect advice on the pod from each of our guests, so that we have all of this great wisdom to share in our forum. So we have three rapid fire questions for you.

Jennifer Peavey:

Okay.

Julie Holton:

Number one, is there a lesson that you’ve recently learned that you wish you would’ve learned earlier in your career?

Jennifer Peavey:

Definitely wish I would listen to my gut more, very early on. I wish I would’ve known what that language was and had taken the time to learn it.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

What is one piece of advice you would offer to any woman?

Jennifer Peavey:

I think the biggest thing is to put yourself care first. Because if you take care of yourself, you will be there and be able to be present all the things that you’ve ever wanted to do. And that needs to be the priority.

Audrea Fink:

In today’s professional setting, what is the most important skill for a woman?

Jennifer Peavey:

Knowing when to say no. I think that’s the hardest thing for women to do.

Julie Holton:

Jennifer Peavey, thank you so much for being on The Think Tank of Three podcast. Where can our listeners find your book and how can they connect with you online?

Jennifer Peavey:

Sure, my website is JenniferPeavey.com and my social media is @Jennifer.theblacklab. And I welcome all comments, I love to be part of the discussion.

Julie Holton:

And we will make sure to link to your website in our show notes, in our transcript. Jennifer, thank you again for being here today.

Jennifer Peavey:

Oh thank you ladies. This has been absolutely marvelous.

Julie Holton:

That’s all for this episode of Think Tank of Three.

Audrea Fink:

If you have topics you’d like us to cover or guests, you’d like to hear from. Send us a message at thinktankofthree@gmail.com. Subscribe to The Think Tank of Three wherever you listen to podcasts and connect with us online. We blog weekly at thinktankofthree.com.

Julie Holton:

Follow us on social media. You can find us individually on LinkedIn and as Think Tank of Three on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Women, click to join our private group on Facebook, where we can all share advice and articles.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

And if you liked what you heard in the podcast, share it. You can find Think Tank of Three on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, Amazon Music and SoundCloud.