We all love a good comeback story. It’s the stuff movies are made of!
In real life though, the pain and sacrifices look a bit different. And when it comes to helping an entire city make a comeback, well, that’s a story still in the making.
In this episode of the Think Tank of Three podcast, we talk with Cathleen Edgerly about her successes and works in progress when it comes to building (and re-building) a community.
Julie Holton:
Welcome to the Think Tank Of Three podcast. I’m Julie Holton with Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris. Audrea Fink is taking some time away. Our third today, our guest, is a woman known for her vision, her leadership, her passion for her community.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
But we know that anywhere there’s a woman in charge there’s a story behind the scenes about what it has taken to get there. Cathleen Edgerly is the Executive Director of Downtown Lansing Incorporated, a nonprofit focused on the economic growth of Michigan’s capital city. Cathleen, welcome to the podcast.
Cathleen Edgerly:
Thank you both for having me.
Julie Holton:
Cathleen, I have actually been a big fan of yours since long before we met in Lansing. I don’t know if you know this, but before returning here to her hometown of Lansing, Cathleen was the Director and COO of a similar organization in my hometown. Cathleen, I actually watched your work on Facebook as Howell was named one of three 2018 Great American Main Street award winners. And it’s so funny because I loved what you were doing then. And then when you came to Lansing, I was like, oh my gosh, we have Cathleen. I don’t even know who she is, but she does amazing work. That was a huge honor for Howell. You were just getting started. What drives you to do the work that you’re doing to revitalize cities like Howell and Lansing?
Cathleen Edgerly:
Oh my goodness. Well, the fact that you know that and you are watching on social media is incredibly flattering and humbling, because as you’ve said before and the whole purpose of this podcast, there’s a lot of hard work that doesn’t always get shared. There’s a lot of emotional fatigue, mental exhaustion, some days where you’re just frustrated. But working for communities for me, it’s incredibly incredibly rewarding because you get to work with so many different stakeholders.
Part of the magic puzzle piecing together is listening to all of the different voices and the passion that people have for the community and the desired outcomes that they have. And then it fueling that passion and that energy and that interest into a similar direction, and really empowering them to make a difference in their community. Howell won the Great American Main Street award. The work that’s happening now in Lansing, that’s not just me. That’s not just my team. It never should just be one person. It is an entire community from people from all walks of life and a lot of different skill sets coming together and saying, “We believe in this town. We believe in this city. We want to see these things happen. And now we will personally be involved in making those things happen.”
When you see people put together an event from ideation to production, or you see how it’s changed how they feel about their block when they planted flowers in that flower bed, or when they’ve inspired their fellow business owners by putting music out front and now everybody’s coming together to make a change on their block, that’s where the reward and that soul food comes in for sure, for me.
RCK:
It’s so interesting listening to you and seeing you. I know that those listening cannot see you. Sometimes that’s a sad thing because the energy that you are expressing is coming through so vitally about what you’re doing. That’s amazing. When you have a passion for something I can tell why it’s successful because when you have the passion to do it you’re going to put everything you’ve got into it and to do it right. You have successfully raised $6 million in grants and other funds in the last few months to help businesses stay, launch or grow into downtown Lansing. What does this kind of funding mean for a community?
CE:
Oh goodness. Just hearing you say the word 6 million, it still gives me goosebumps and feels like a dream. It was a year of tireless advocacy, of pounding the pavement, of being the voice for so many business owners in our community and saying downtown Lansing and these people and places really deserve it.
When it comes to what drives me and what drives my team, it really is all about the people, the people that we serve. Again, empowering them to see that they have a place here, that they have a voice that can be actively involved in making the changes that they want to see possible, and laying that solid foundation for the change. I mean, funding was absolutely critical for downtown Lansing as we looked to really stabilize, strategize, and then lay a solid foundation and plan and vision for what the next 50 years could look like for downtown Lansing.
Because while we, unfortunately, as a city had really relied on major employers and daytime workers to infuse light and life into our district from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM, COVID shined a bright light on why that wouldn’t work anymore. We had all been talking about it. I heard my parents talking about it. Their parents probably talked about it because they come from a long line of people who’ve lived in Lansing their entire lives. But we had to stop talking and we had to start really doing things to change how people think about downtown Lansing, how they engage with this community, and help lead a community through this transformative time.
Because it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity to change the narrative for downtown Lansing, to change how people are talking about ourselves. Because that’s ultimately what we’re doing as a community. If we are not talking about ourselves, well, why should anybody else? If we are talking about we need a more diverse business mix, we need more residential in the downtown, then how are we going to get there? By working with all of different people and places who make up downtown Lansing and Lansing as a whole to lay out that plan and that vision, and then the actionable ways that we’re going to achieve all of those goals, it’s exciting. It’s exhausting. It’s somewhat terrifying. But with so many people in love it can absolutely happen.
JH:
And I think this is so relatable, no matter where people are listening from. Because as you said, the pandemic really changed so much about how we live our lives. It changed even, again, our shopping patterns, our remote work. As you mentioned, these things are so different. For those who don’t know anything about Michigan’s capital city, let’s paint the picture, Cathleen. Because to understand the work you’re doing and how it relates to work being done in other cities, I think sharing some context will help. What is downtown Lansing’s story?
CE:
Downtown Lansing’s story, like any community, it’s evolved through the years. It used to be that heart and hub of the city where people went shopping. They loved window shopping 60 some years ago these huge department stores and high end businesses. And then we started to see shifts as highways were built, neighborhoods in some ways were slightly removed to make way for state offices and be the center seat of state government. Therefore, less people were living in the downtown. More businesses were being started, being built, et cetera, to center around the state government and all of these office buildings that somehow tied into state government.
And that worked for a long time to a certain extent. We still really love being the capital city and being that seat of state and city government as well. But because we look to the future, we cannot just rely on that. We have to build a community and really focus and prioritize a broader audience. Meaning, we’re including the people who live here, who call downtown in the city home 24/7 and diversify the business mix, diversify the housing opportunities that are here. Look at these community spaces as places we should really embrace and be proud of as great community gathering spaces. Spaces to hold events and activities or just to be. It’s very interesting, however, the last couple years, so many more people are focusing on where can they just be? Have a moment silence, read their books, get together with their high school friends, things of that nature. They really want to have all of those pieces, all of those amenities in order to call Lansing their home.
The funding that was able to be raised and provided through the state and the city and other fundraising tactics is going to go right back in the hands of our small businesses as grants to help keep them afloat, see them through this transformative time, to also look at these community spaces and enhance them. How can we look at allys as something more than just a backdoor to a business, but a great community space and add light and life into these spaces and bring some new events and activities to the capital city?
RCK:
It goes without saying that, even when someone’s trying to do something positive, for whatever reason, there’s always going to be some pushback. There’s always going to be someone saying, “No, no, no, no, no. You can’t. I don’t want you… No. Don’t. No. Don’t go down that road.” What has been the most difficult challenge, or what have been some of the challenges, that you’ve been facing in trying to do this?
CE:
I mean, every day, yes. Having a lot of people involved, diverse perspectives for sure, and opinions. If I had to come up with just a couple of the most difficult challenges, it would be the shift to a hybrid work environment and most people coming out. It’s been hard for reduced traffic in the area, feelings of public safety, as well as of course sales.
But then it’s also been looking at different building models, or ways of doing business for us as an organization. Looking at what types of developments haven’t been done here before. And just because they haven’t been done here before doesn’t mean they can’t be. So let’s look at what’s worked in other communities across the nation and let’s bring in some experts who do this work too across the nation, and really walk through this community and talk about opportunities for infill, or upfill. How are we going to bring residential? We know right now we’re playing the long game. Nothing is going to change overnight. That’s so hard when you are so excited for what can be. And you know this business is coming in, but it’s not coming in for another six months or a year. Or this housing development’s not getting built for two more years. It’s a lot of patience. That’s where I struggle.
RCK:
That’s the tough part. You’re like, no, not three years. Now.
CE:
Yes. It’s all those sprinkles. This got me through when I was in Howell. We have to remind ourselves as a team you’re in the office too many days, all of these little things that might not seem Earth shattering right now, or you can’t see how they’re impacting things in this current moment, just wait for three years. Wait even a year. Then five, 10 years you look back and be like, ah, that made sense. That all culminated and added to this wonderful, amazing thing that we achieved together.
RCK:
Have you had to, in your conversations with whomever in trying to get your funding and trying to make these adjustments, how have you had to edit yourself in the situation?
CE:
I think something that is unique to my profession, and others who lead downtown’s early neighborhoods, we have a unique skill set. And not only we have to listen to a lot of different groups, but we also have the ability to interpret what they’re saying and bring all of those different ways of sometimes saying the exact same thing. But whether it’s the needs of the small business owner, or it’s the voice of that property owner, or it’s the city process in place, and bring them together so that they understand and hear each other. That’s where I feel our strength as downtown directors, as an organization here at DLI, lies. Because we are so connected. We understand how to navigate a process. We hear and understand the needs of our small business owners, as well as those larger corporations. And like I said, those property owners, the city and what needs to be, and we can look at both sides and bring them together.
JH:
Sometimes you have to go way outside of the box to get some of this done, even in just the ways you’re communicating, or even with some of these ideas that you bring to the table. What gives you the courage to go for it?
CE:
Oh, well, I mean, first, I think I said this before, it’s definitely not just me or the team. Right? It takes the community to build an even more amazing community. When you are listening to the people, you’re empowering them, you’re putting yourself in the position where you have to consider your audience and what makes them tick, or what language they’re speaking, if you will. That’s where the magic happens. That’s where you can really actually make a difference. Because at the end of the day, so many times people want the same things. We’re just talking about it differently, or we’re approaching it differently.
CE:
It truly fuels my soul when you can be a connector and see that light bulb, or see that smile and just that reaction from an individual or an entire group when they’re like, “I did that. I was able to paint that utility box. I was able to do that mural on that building because you may have put me in contact with that property owner. We were able to make this event happen and get the street closed, not because we necessarily knew how to navigate that process or what forms had to be filled out, but someone helped us get there.” And if we can do nothing else but be that connector and be that resource and help them get through that process, we’ve done our job really, really well.
JH:
Okay. So can you give us an example? You have so many. I would love to hear a story, a time when you took something from its traditional model, you flipped it all around, or maybe a favorite story of something that was really outside of the box. What’s something that comes to mind that just has been a really fun, a really cool project to work on?
CE:
I’m going to give two, if that’s okay. One is in a community that I used to work in there was this underutilized, I’ll say, portion of town. It was dark. The parking lot for sure needed repaving, painting, lighting. A lot of the rest of the community shined, but this one corner really struggled. No one was going to invest there. They were trying to get investments right across the street. The team that I was working with at the time, we looked at that and it happened to be in our backyard that we looked at every day. In a lot of times you bring storm and problem solving. What if we intentionally mix things up here? Let’s bring some food trucks, do it at a day and time that has the least amount of impact on our businesses, and bring a lot of people to this space and show a different use for this space.
CE:
And which of course meant we had to go to city council. We had to talk to every business owner and make sure they understood that we were not trying to take business away from them. We were not trying to violate any ordinances in any way, but bring a community together, see a space that was going to lead to long term investment. We were taking a huge gamble because we did it in November. Football’s going on. It’s cold. Who knows? Food trucks have never been done here before. And it worked. And it was at kids, right? So the Lorax and Sneedville when all the people come over the hill. And it was like that coming from all different portions of the downtown and the neighborhoods coming to this space with a light snowfall on an MSU UofM game day. I think we had 15 or 20 trucks that first time.
The next year when we brought it back in warmer weather we went from businesses really concerned about how it was going to impact their business and a city council who was not sure that this was a great space, why weren’t we doing it on a main street, to businesses wanting to sponsor it. The restaurants themselves. To people feel like that was the first time that they had really gotten back out in their community and seen a lot of their neighbors in that way. And then the businesses started to say that was their highest sales day as that continued to grow and evolve.
And now this space has a huge investment going in across the street. It’s no longer just a parking lot that has been repaved and restriped and lit up and it’s beautiful. There is an amazing park space now directly adjacent to it. Kids play there. Music is held there. There’s historic walking tours. A lot centers around this block that might not have been given that attention otherwise. So that’s one example. And I love it because going back and seeing it periodically once a year, I’m like, oh my gosh, this is what we knew could happen. There’s a huge mural on the back of this building that was just a warehouse. Now people feel really, really good about it and get their senior pictures in front of other baby pictures, et cetera.
Another one that we’re in the midst of is looking at a historic building that had been certain uses. People feel it’s closed off to them. They don’t really know the full story, even though there’s a historic marker telling some of the story about that property out there. We simply went up to the property owner. I say simply, there were a lot of phone calls, texts trying to get that meeting in place. But I said, “What if instead of offices in this feeling closed off the community, we really celebrated it’s history? And we started changing the use and having more of these boutique retail businesses in there and used it as an indoor enclosed weatherproof kind of space to showcase a whole bunch of wonderful businesses that people are going to want to walk into and admire the beauty of this building and feel that connection to the place that they live?”
And how long will it take for some of these leases that are either someone’s been in this building for two years plus, give or take. Or people either move back or move down so that we can bring that street presence right out to all the people who call downtown Lansing home. It’s a work in progress, but it’s moving in that direction. We’re super excited for it.
RCK:
There’s a lot of foresight that’s going on with what you’re doing. That’s not easy and that’s not innate in everyone. Where does that come from in you?
CE:
I don’t know. I’m going to say it’s okay to sometimes say you don’t know. Right?
RCK:
Amen.
CE:
Because all of us [inaudible 00:20:07], especially you don’t always feel okay saying I don’t know. It’s just a belief that I have that things can change. And if you just talked to people about it and you bring, don’t always talk to yourself, smarter people in the room to the table and talk about it, what’s the worst that can happen? Someone will say no. Okay. That’s no for now. We’ll revisit it.
RCK:
And be willing to have the conversations, like you said. I think a big one that individuals tend to struggle with is being willing to listen to the concerns, and then specifically address the concerns versus just saying, oh, it’ll be fine. It’ll be fine. No, let me address specifically what you were talking about.
CE:
Yes.
RCK:
And then you can understand where we’re coming from and how we are not at heads with one another. We’re actually working with one another. That’s fantastic. I don’t even have a revitalation story. My thing was simply, we had a wonderful crossing guard who had been at my son, now my daughter’s elementary school. He passed away and we wanted to honor him because he was just such a wonderful human being. Everybody kept talking about, “We should do something. We should do something. We should do something.” And no one ever does anything. So I said, “Okay, I know a couple of people at city council. I made a couple of phone calls. How do I get this going? What do I need to do?” They said, “You need to go get signatures. I suggest use this street.” Da, da, da. And everybody’s like, “Oh, if you want a hand, let me give you a hand.”
RCK:
Doesn’t necessarily come to fruition. But I went ahead and knocked on doors. His name is on the street sign and it’s going to be there for 25 years. I look up at that every day. I’m like, I did that. Yes. And it’s not, I did that. It’s just, I’m able to honor someone who was beautiful. Every signature I got… At first, I remember walking up to one of his neighbors on the street and they were like, “We don’t want any. We don’t want any.” And I said, “This is about Roosevelt Mitchell.” Door flew open. “Such a wonderful man. I can’t believe he passed away.” I’m like, “Well, that’s why I’m here. We want to honor him and put his name on the street.” And they said, “Yes. What do you need from me? Do you need me to put in money? We can pay for it.” I’m like, “The city will pay for it. I just need your permission as a homeowner on the street.” So when you see the fruition of something you put your time into happen, you feel like I can do anything.
CE:
Yes. I can feel all of your feeling and that pride and that love and sense of accomplishment. It’s so huge for your community. These people and these places matter. And I say it all the time for downtown Landing. Downtown matters each. And every person here matters. If we are going to continue to say it matters then we have to invest in ourselves. We have to start talking about not only what we want, but demanding what we deserve for this community.
JH:
You’ve mentioned your team a couple times, Cathleen. You have a rockstar team. Not only are you a woman at the helm of this important organization for downtown, but you lead a team that right now consists of all women in a field often led by men. What is this like for you?
CE:
It is so wonderful in so many ways. We bring our different perspectives and our different life experiences to the table. Being women in business, the perspectives that we bring in a variety of ways, from family to not always being a voice that was listened, to having to, I’ll just say it, sometimes be better, think faster, be more strategic, be so present to make sure that you come off well, or that you are heard that we use those skills to our strength as a united whole, as a team.
But it takes work. It takes work each and every day to remind people of the personal role that we play in our community, but that professional role of being more than just an events organization, or that young lady, which now I can’t say I’m a young lady anymore, but-
RCK:
Yes you can.
CE:
Yeah. Over the here we need to do this. “Sure, sure, Cathleen, whatever.” We have to be taken seriously as individuals and professionals who know we are experts. We know what we’re doing and not apologize for it. Sometimes you can come to the table and we recognize when we’re doing it. Oh, if you could please… We have to build each other up to not do that. To just come into a room. “I am the expert. We are the downtown management agency. We deserve a seat at that table if it is all involving downtown. We have a voice and should be consulted in a variety of ways.”
And then we have to empower each other to build each other up when we’re having a rough day. We have to stand up for ourselves and that’s not always easy. You all know that. Most people probably listen to this podcast understand what that feels like because it’s an internal struggle of having the right to stand up for ourselves, to be a strong voice unapologetically.
RCK:
A lot of individuals, especially leaders in leadership roles, one of the things that you hear about them is their ability to delegate the work, finding the people under them to do A, B, C, and D. It’s a leadership quality, right? They don’t necessarily get in there and do it themselves. They might recognize the talent that can get something accomplished specifically that they want accomplished without necessarily doing that themselves. That’s not you, though. You are described by your team as a visionary, but one who also knows how to get things done and rolls up her sleeves to participate in getting it done. Rolling up your sleeves, diving in. Why is it so important for you to not just have the people under you or with you to do it, but for you to physically get your hands in there and do it yourself?
CE:
That also gave me tingles in a variety of ways. It’s so nice and also hard to hear yourself described that way, if that makes sense. I don’t talk about myself well. I’m not comfortable with it, but love that other people feel that passionate and positively towards the role that I have the opportunity to serve in this community. I don’t know how not to be hands on, to be frank and honest. I really truly believe and have had some really good examples and some really poor examples of what not to do that you have to lead by example. If I am going to ask a volunteer or a coworker or a board member to do something, then I better be willing to do that myself.
It doesn’t always mean that I can’t delegate that, but people see that I’m willing to do that work, to be very present and in this organization get to serve as a connector in a variety of ways. You don’t always have to have all the answers, but you probably know other people who do. So if you can connect individuals with the people who do have the answers, or punt it off to the people who have the skill set and help make something happen, why wouldn’t you do that? It’s an amazing feeling, but it’s also part of our job. It’s what helps get these things done. I guess the long story short is, yep, I’ll roll my sleeves up every single day. And if I don’t have the answer I’ll find out who the heck does and wants to get to yes and across that finish line?
JH:
I think it hit me, especially during the pandemic when we all had nothing better to do anyway in those early days of staying connected on social media and seeing what people were doing or not doing, but it really hit me then that, Cathleen, people like you, in air quotes, people like you who are servant leaders, who are affecting change for the entire communities where they live, it’s not just work because it’s also life. You’re living it. You are doing it. When you go home at night after a long day at the office, or who knows, maybe you’re going back to city council meetings or other things, the work never ends because you go home to your family that lives in the community that you’re serving.
It also struck me. I was talking with a mutual friend, also a fellow small business owner, and I said to him, “Usually oftentimes when people recognize that they have this powerful ability to raise money and make connections, they go into business for themselves.” Like this person and I did, as we were talking to each other. Or they might go work someplace else, some corporate position, highly profitable, paycheck to match the title.
Cathleen, you have all of these skill sets and you are doing incredible work for our community. I mean, truly. What drives you to keep doing the work here, to keep focusing on the big picture and affecting as many lives as possible, instead of only focusing on what’s best for Cathleen, what’s best for your family? You know what I mean? I’m sure these are decisions that we all make, but what drives you to really keep that big picture in mind and to be such a servant leader in our community?
CE:
First of all, thank you. But also, it’s the work that I love. It’s where I feel I personally can make the most difference. Being a servant leader and representing an entire community, it can be incredibly messy sometimes. I use that word a lot, messy. But it’s incredibly rewarding. I know I’m exactly where I need to be and I’m doing exactly what I’m doing. There is really no greater gift than that. It’s not work. It’s what I live and breathe. My family sees it and hopefully that’ll teach them some things along the way too. I truly feel that every member of this team also lives and breathes the work that we do. We live and breathe community in doing. Even when we have missteps, we fail and it didn’t go exactly how we wanted it to go. We recognize it should have been done a different way. We are all doing it for the right reasons.
RCK:
You just mentioned your family and you had talked about your kids earlier. What kind of conversations are you having with them? How are you, without trying to push them… We want our kids to be their own people. We get that. But we want the good stuff of what we’re doing to rub off on them. What kind of conversations are you having with them about being a part of their community, earning a seat at the table, trying to find out what that nugget of greatness is within?
CE:
Well, we talk about all of the things, the messy, the not always pleasant side of working in an urban downtown community. They are intricately aware of the work that happens in my office and in this community. But again, back to that leading by example point, I try to emulate that with my family and my children as well. I volunteer at their school, volunteer in our church choir, take them with me to other organizations, events and important moments to show them just how important it is to show up for others. Because if you want them to show up for you, you put in the time, you make the effort, you show up for them as well.
My kids volunteer at a variety of activities already. They know sometimes I’ll be like, “Hey, it’s Saturday. Let’s down and check out this…” Insert festival or this community event that’s happening or this art path. Let’s kayak in our downtown… So anything they already know that they’re not only going to be experiencing it, they’re actively part of it in some way. Typically, because my son’s a middle schooler, they don’t complain too much about it. They talk about it to their friends. You can start to see in the activities that they’re starting to get involved with. Hopefully.
I’m showing them that community matters, that you can have a long lasting and positive impact on where you live on, on where you go to school if you get involved by speaking up, knowing your worth and following through on what you believe in. That speaks to your character and other people are going to recognize that in you. It really does matter. They’re important life lessons as they’re this young and getting towards high school ag. I guess if nothing else I hope that someday they’re talking to their kids or their friends or otherwise and they know that their mom tried, that I made a conscious decision to serve my community and do the hard work.
They saw me cry. They saw me laugh. They saw me celebrating the small and the big moments of having those hard conversations. Speaking of conversations, not just talk about what needs to be done, but roll up your sleeves and do the hard work to make it happen. Again, sometimes you’ll take a misstep. You’ll fail. We talk about that too. They’re very aware of times where I feel like we didn’t do enough, or we didn’t do it right. But that’s okay. You keep going. You keep trying.
JH:
And that may be the most powerful work of all of this, showing our kids that we can make a difference, that changing the world starts at home, that they can do this.
RCK:
Thank you so much, Cathleen. It has been wonderful talking to you. Again, I repeat what I said before. You can feel the energy from you and the passion that you have for what you’re doing, which I have zero doubt also lends a great deal to why you’re able to have the successes that you have. Lansing is so lucky to have you. Clearly, so lucky to have you. But before we go-
JH:
We really are. You can see, by the way, now… When I sounded like a fan girl at the beginning of the show, you can see now why.
RCK:
Yes. Before we roll out of here we collect advice here on the podcast from each of our guests. We have three rapid fire questions for you. Just quick, whatever, the first thing that comes out of your mind. It doesn’t have to be that long soil. Just the first quick thing that comes to your mind. So are you ready?
CE:
Okay.
RCK:
All right. Question number one. Is there a lesson that you have recently learned that you wish you would’ve learned a little earlier in your career?
CE:
Yes. To not apologize for being yourself.
JH:
I love that. We got a touchdown sign from Reischea on that one. Okay. Rapid fire. Next question. What one piece of advice would you offer to any woman?
CE:
To believe in yourself as much as other people probably believe in you. It’s okay to not be okay sometimes. Lean on those who are going to support you during the toughest and the ugliest times. They’re your people.
RCK:
Let us just quickly repeat what she dropped in the middle there. It’s okay to not be okay. In today’s professional setting, what is the most important skill for women?
CE:
Not just for women, anybody, I think being able to clearly articulate your opinion, stand by it and explain it sometimes. But then also, oh gosh, I think it’s for anybody though, too, present yourself the way you want to be perceived.
RCK:
Absolutely. The other thing, and we’ve said this about stuff before, something that’s good for women is innately good for everyone. It just is, because… I’m going to leave that alone. It just is.
CE:
Yeah.
JH:
Cathleen, this has been so amazing. Thank you for being on the podcast. Tell us though, where can our listeners connect with you online? Where do we get ahold of you through Downtown Lansing Inc?
CE:
You can go to downtownlansing.org and all of my contact information is on there. If you just go to the contact us and you’ll see the staff listing. Also, professionally of course, LinkedIn. Cathleen Edgerly is with a C for Cathleen, just for all of the listeners out there, because I get that all the time. And then of course I’m on all the other social media channels. It’s Cathleen Edgerly at Facebook, Twitter, Instagram.
JH:
Awesome.
CE:
Thank you, ladies. This has been a pleasure. It warmed my soul and I was very flattered to be asked.
RCK:
Oh it really has been. It was wonderful talking to you. Wonderful talking to you.
JH:
And that is all for this episode of Think Tank Of Three.
Audrea Fink:
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