Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
From Wall Street to local government, Carmen Hughes has made it her business to open doors and create opportunity in business. Now she’s answered the call to help her city understand the true power of woman.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Hi, and welcome to another episode of Think Tank of Three. Andrea Fink is taking a break, but will be back with the team. In the interim, along with Julie Holton, I am Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris. Welcome to the show. Our third for Think Tank of Three is our guest Carmen Hughes.
Julie Holton:
Straight out of Howard University, Carmen’s determination was on display. Starting as an analyst at JP Morgan, she quickly worked her way up the ladder with the goals of opportunities for women and people of color top of mind. She was the co-chair of the investment bank’s Black Employee Business Resource Group, and implemented several key diversity programs for Black and Hispanic employees.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Her success at JP Morgan allowed her to walk away from a 20 year career on Wall Street when she was ready and moved into her next chapter, founding her consulting and talent development firm, Edelweise. Carmen’s expertise in diversity momentum was sought after. Following the election of Caroline Simmons, Stamford, Connecticut’s first woman mayor, Carmen was hired as the city’s first diversity, equity, and inclusion officer. She is charged with developing policies to attract, promote, and retain a diverse workforce throughout the city, it’s boards, and commissions, and she joins us now. Carmen, welcome to the show.
Carmen Hughes:
Thank you. I’m glad to be here.
RCK:
We are so grateful to have you with us. It is amazing. What is so amazing about you is we only give some quick highlights to your career and you’ve got so much happening in that realm. Can you just talk about how the diversity and inclusion aspect of your career, how that has been such a touchstone for how you function?
Carmen Hughes:
Yeah, absolutely. It actually started with my career on Wall Street. Being one of the very few women on the trading floor and a woman of color on the trading floor, I was constantly being tapped with helping to recruit and more women and minorities on the trading floor or within the investment bank. And as I became more senior, I noticed myself becoming more and more of a mentor to more women and minorities. And I also felt that there were fewer people who looked like me at the top, who were comfortable giving me that advice that isn’t in the textbook. And I’m talking about that in the moment advice, those informal rules and practices that could be true career killers if no one tells you. And that reminds me of a story of a young woman. Earlier on in my career, I was given the role of managing a desk.
And as we were in the performance review process, there was a woman who everyone was giving reviews about saying, “Oh, she’s phenomenal. She’s so great.” And we all went to her because she knew everything. She’d been in this role for about 12 years. And then I said, “Well, why don’t we promote her?” And everyone said, “Oh, no, she doesn’t want it.” I’m like, “And she’s great at what she does?” And, “Oh no. She’s happy.” And I was like, “Are you sure she doesn’t want it?” “Oh, no, we’re sure she’s never asked for it. She’s happy doing what she wants.” So after the meeting, I went over to her, I said, “Are you really happy doing this? Do you not want more?” She’s like, “No, I want more.” And later, she actually ended up becoming a trader and I gave her that advice on being bold and asking for it.
So at that moment, I made it my mission to really make sure that I was helping more Black and Hispanic employees and interns and women get familiar with these informal rules and break out of their cultures, which was her culture, which was you put your head down, you do a good job. You’re going to be recognized for a good job you do and that’s how you get promoted. So the whole time, she was just working harder and harder wondering why everyone else was getting promoted and thinking she just had to work harder, not realizing it’s because she just never advocated for herself.
JH:
Wow. Isn’t that incredible? I mean, we talk about that theme so often on the podcast of making sure your voice is heard and not making assumptions one way or another. And I love, too, Carmen that you didn’t follow that assumption that she didn’t want more. You went and asked her about that. How should women… How do we take that step? If someone is actively working hard, maybe they’re hearing this and they’re thinking, “Oh my gosh, that’s me. I’ve been working so hard, but my head’s down and maybe my boss doesn’t know I want the promotion.” What do you do?
CH:
You have that conversation. No, I say it jokingly, but it truly is that simple. And maybe it starts with saying, asking yourself, “What do I want and why do I deserve it?” So you can go in with your list, because that’s going to be asked of you, right, when you go in there and say, “I think I’m ready for a promotion.” You want to be ready to answer those questions. So ask that of yourself and be prepared and know that it’s because you haven’t advocated. Because I think, for the most part, people know you have to do your job well, right, in order to be considered.
So as long as you think you’re doing your job well, then you should have that conversation, because the only thing can happen is that your manager will give you great advice on what you need to do to get to that next level. Because sometimes our perception of what we’re doing, we’re working hard or we’re not working smart. So you’ll get that intel and you’ll get that conversation of what needs to happen to get you to that next level. But you’ll never know unless you have the conversation.
RCK:
I’m thinking back, Julie, to our conversation with Erin Wolf and developing also those relationships with individual… Actually not even just Erin Wolf. Like you said, we’ve had this discussion with so many different individuals regarding advocating for yourself, but finding someone who’s also going to advocate for you and developing that mentorship, having that individual-
JH:
Yes. And that sponsor, that woman at the top who’s helping you, working with you to bring you up with her, which is Carmen exactly what you’re describing.
CH:
Yeah. And I will say that it’s important to have someone who looks like you to be that trusted mentor. But also, it’s great to have someone who doesn’t look like you, who doesn’t represent you to. But having that person who understands where you’re coming from is truly valuable. And I’m sorry, I’m a storyteller, so I’m going to tell another story. I actually recognized that early on too, is that people don’t know how to get mentors and people don’t know how to get sponsors. And they really don’t know the difference between the two. And so oftentimes, people try to use their manager as their mentor and sometimes that works, but that doesn’t always work that way.
And so, one of the things I did, as I said, I was early in my career, always [inaudible 00:07:22] with recruiting. So when the interns came in, I realized it was the interns that were making lots of mistakes early on. And I realized because they had no mentors who were in their group. Because oftentimes within the Black and Hispanic interns, you’re the only one in your group. So there’s no one else to say, “Am I getting treated like this because of what I look like, or am I getting treated like this because I’m the intern? That’s how interns get treated.” And so-
JH:
Yes.
CH:
…I quickly held an event at my house for all the Black and Hispanic interns around the trading floor, and I matched it with senior lack and Hispanics within the firm. So that way, they had a place outside of work where we could feel safe and share those informal rules and experiences and then let the natural law of attraction kind of help them find their own mentors and sponsors whether it was in their group or not within their group.
And just from that experience alone, we saw the increase in hiring at the end of the summer. Because when they felt supported and two, someone was whispering, “No don’t do that or it’s okay. Just keep follow through.” Because they were all smart enough to be there. They said no one whispering their ear of who they felt trusted that they could go to before.
JH:
I’d like to dig into that a little bit more. I mean, can you talk about the atmosphere? What was it like? I mean, you’ve had to navigate, I would imagine, a variety of obstacles to get to where you are in your career with your success. What was this atmosphere like?
CH:
Oh. The atmosphere of JP Morgan, I was truly blessed to be there because I did find mentors, both who looked like me and who didn’t. And I was able to serve on a number of diversity committees that exposed me to people outside of my group, who I could connect with and who I can depend on, who I could trust. And I want to share a funny story. Of course, I told you [inaudible 00:09:16]. Early in my career, I was invited into a diversity committee and I remember walking into the room and I was the most junior person in the room. Everyone else was executive directors or managing directors who are very senior within the bank if you understand the structure. It goes analyst, associate, vice-president, executive director, then managing director. And I remember walking in thinking, “Oh my gosh, I’m an associate, why I’m in this room?”
And I was one of two Black people in the room. Everyone else in the room was white. And I said, “Okay, I don’t know why I’m here, but I was invited. So I’m going to take a seat at the table.” And I spoke up, I gave my suggestions. I offered to do some investigative work and come back and lead one of their initiatives. And at the end of the meeting, before I could even get to my desk, there was an email from the head of sales. And he was like, “Can you come to my office?” And I was like, “Oh, no, I spoke up too much. What was I thinking? You weren’t supposed to be in that room.” And so he asked me, he goes, “Why were you there in that room?” And he did much politer than what I’m suggesting now, but I explained that I got the email.
He goes, “Oh, I get it. It was supposed to go to Carmen the assistant, not you. But you know what? I really appreciate the value that you gave and I want to formally invite you into the committee.” So in that moment, I realized the power. I was like, “Wow, Sheryl Sandberg said it much better in her book, Lean In.” But had I gone into that room and felt intimidated, had I not taken a seat at the table, he would’ve said, “Oh, mystery solved. I’m so sorry, you’re not supposed to be in this room.” And instead, a whole different outcome. So that was a huge lesson just by being a mistake and just speaking up. Being crazy Carmen speaking.
JH:
And look at the value that you provided too. I mean, I think back to when I was in my early 20s and working in news and didn’t know any better, for lack of a better way of saying. I didn’t know that there was this hierarchy that people were going to look down on me because I was so new, and fresh, and young, and didn’t know anything. And so I thought at the time that if you had a seat at the table, all voices were equal. You speak up, you talk, you share thoughts. And so, it wasn’t until later that I learned, “Wait a minute, maybe they don’t really want the interns to be speaking up.” And I think we should all live like that no matter what stage we are in our career, because every voice has value. We often talk now at our marketing agency about making sure that we have a mix of people on the team of all different ages, so that we’re fully understanding and looking at things from all different generations, all different experience points.
But it’s just so funny to think back when I didn’t know any better about was my voice supposed to be heard? And I didn’t know so I spoke up. And I just think, gosh, what if more women, what if more women of color, what if more people in general were speaking up and sharing in these positive ways? Look at how much better your organization is because you did so. And also, by the way, were they really only going to have one person of color on that committee? So maybe that accident was a good one.
CH:
Absolutely.
RCK:
And not only that, let’s face it, and we’ve discussed this as well, women will tend to hold back more than men do. So there’s… Most men, even at that intern level, I remember when I was at ESPN, you’d have… If you had your say, intern or assistant male, they had no problem, just jumping in there and, “Well, this is… Hey, have you considered this or think about that?” And women, like we tend to do, I guess there’s something in general in our nature that just has us kind of pipe down and say, “Just do the work. Just do the work. Don’t worry about it. You haven’t earned that ability to speak yet.”
And it’s not about earning that ability to speak. If you have something to contribute to the discussion, then it should be heard regardless of where you sit in the “hierarchy” of the situation. So we’re moving now from JP Morgan, we’re jumping past so many different things, but you are now the City of Stamford’s first ever DEI officer, which means all eyes are on you in this new role. How have you approached this position with the city?
CH:
That is a great question. I think I have approached it with open ears to listen, open eyes to see, and a compassionate heart to listen to the hardships, with a loyalty for people to be able to trust the things that they’re sharing with me about their experience, good and bad, as a city employee. And then knowing that I’m following the rules that I always gave in my training sessions. All your personal stories stay in this room, but all your learnings and your sharings, let’s share those out. But the personal stories stay here.
So I’ve been really on a whirlwind listening tour, talking to as many people as I can. We administered our first employee engagement survey in a very long time, but we did it in Spanish and in English, which was definitely something new, especially because we recognize that, I mean, goodness, more than 50% of Stamford residents speak Spanish. So we would think that a number of our employees also speak Spanish.
So we wanted to make sure that we were administering this survey to accommodate everybody into their natural language to respond. And so, I’ve been reading through everyone’s responses and making sure that I can come up with themes so I can really use that as my direction of travel for how we’re going to learn what’s going on within the organization and then prioritize my direction of travel.
RCK:
Are you noticing are there any differences in dealing with diversity, equity at the city level versus at the corporate level? Are there any… I’m not sure if there would be, but are you noticing is there any difference in those two different worlds?
CH:
You know what? No. I mean, the experiences are very similar. It’s the way they’re handled are so different, I think. Because what I’m finding is that when you’re dealing with the unions, the unions approach is a very black and white approach, but in life, there’s a lot of gray. And I think it’s that gray area that makes sometimes some things a little bit more difficult to navigate than when you can in the corporate environment or in the public and private sector. But not saying that’s a bad thing, it’s just a different thing. So if I would define something different, that would be one of the differences that I’m recognizing.
JH:
I think it’s so interesting that one of the marketing points on when we’re talking about you, and your role, your title, is that you’re the city’s first diversity, equity, and inclusion officer. And of course, we also… This comes after we talked recently with Caroline Simmons, which is she is Stamford’s first woman mayor. And I’m just caught by this nuance here where it’s like on one hand, “It’s the first. And it isn’t this amazing? And it isn’t this great?” And on the other hand, I’m like, “Really, it’s the first? We’re still there? We’re still celebrating the first female, we’re still celebrating the first DEI.” And I know we have to start somewhere, right? But can you talk a little bit, what is this like for you? I mean, I would imagine that you’re wanting to really pave the way and make these inroads, but are we getting there fast enough?
CH:
We’ll never get there fast enough. But also,, too, one thing that I’m learning with DEI is what is there? This is going to be a journey that we’re on and it’s going to be constantly evolving. The world is constantly evolving. So I am happy that I am the first. And to your perfect analogy, I have the opportunity to put down some really solid pavement for us to grow from. And what I’m also finding is that there are a number of other cities that are in the exact same space that I am, so that’s been very comforting too. So I just reached out to Hartford. They just hired their first one about a year or so ago. I just reached out to another city that just hired their first one. I’m helping Norwalk recruit their first one. So it’s nice to know that we are moving and it’s nice to see other cities following our route saying, “Okay, this is something we need to do.”
And then on the flip side, we also have role models. We have cities or counties like King County or Bellevue County in Seattle. I spent some time out there because they’ve been steep in this work for the past 20 plus years. And what was great was that their approach were so totally different. King County is really focused on racial justice and racial equity, versus Bellevue takes approach of, “Let’s look at holistically from a DEI perspective on race, gender, accessibility, economic status, not just focus solely…” I shouldn’t say King County focus solely on race, but it’s rooted in racial justice, so.
JH:
Let’s talk about your consulting firm a bit. I started my own digital marketing agency, so I know the challenges that come. The definite benefits, but also the challenges that come with being the one who is running the show. What has been the greatest challenge for you and the greatest benefit of being the founder of your own consulting agency?
CH:
One of the greatest benefits was creating and doing it “my way” and really just getting the chance to just explore and talk to people and really helping them with their issues. And that was part of the reasons why I wanted to go off and do my own is because I was working under another organization and their way of rolling out the methodology was slightly different than what I felt was true in my heart. So this gave me the opportunity to say, “This is how I think it should be done,” and roll it out. And get that step and repeat, and then get the referrals and seeing the growth and seeing the measure of success that people were having, saying, “Okay, yes. Job well done. That worked.” The hard thing about when it’s your own company is you’re constantly on all day long. I mean, even when you’re on vacations, it’s eat what you kill.
So even when I was on vacation, I can remember we were in Aruba and I was in the room. I have a conference call, oh, I had to facilitate this workshop. And my kids were like, “Are you coming down ever?” And literally my husband counts up the hour,. He said, “You spent more time in the room than with us, just so you know.” And I was like, “Ooh.” So that was one of the things. And then that feeling, just being in the back of your lab with your pen and pad all by yourself kind of gets lonely sometimes. So rewarding and challenging.
RCK:
It’s the balance that we also discuss a great deal about and finding and figuring out where’s the sweet spot, right? Where’s the sweet spot? When can I put this away and then bring it back out the next morning? And I would imagine, I guess, and Julie, obviously both of you can speak to this. It is difficult to just put that away because that is your baby. You put it together, you’ve made it, you’ve developed it, you’ve grown it. It’s almost like your own child. That’s a 24/7 thing.
CH:
And if I can add one more thing to it. I think it also was that burnout that a lot of people felt through 2020, 2021. And now that we’re working from home so much more, is that my office is right here in the home. So every time I walk past my office, it was, “Okay. Let me just send out this one email,” which then turned into a couple hours, because I love doing what I’m doing. And so I was easily just sucked into it. And so there’s something to be said for that too. I mean, there was pros and cons of that, but I think that’s also why sometimes we hear a lot of people just going through a lot of stress right now, because when you don’t have the office as a help to kind of turn it off and you’re more then relying on your iPhone to get you there versus actually the computer and your office calling you in to do the work. There’s a difference.
JH:
I feel like such a broken record. Carmen, I don’t know about you, but it’s like it’s constant balance. And Reisch, you say that a lot too. I think for all women, no matter what you’re balancing, you’re balancing something. And if it’s your own business, you are the one in charge of making sure that your clients are staying on track, your team, whatever that is. But you’re also passionate about it. You love what you do, you love helping people. And so you want to do it just as much as you feel the need to do it. And so it’s just that constant balancing routine of making sure you’re also fitting in time for family and time for you. These other things that you want to be doing. And I feel like for every step forward I take and learning that lesson of balance, I still have a mile ahead of me. There’s still so much more to constantly be learning about perfecting this, I don’t know, fairy tale of balance.
CH:
It’s funny, it is a fairy tale of balance. Actually. I think it’s more of a nightmare, because it’s the wrong word. And I just changed my language. It’s not balance, it’s integration. And I think it’s because we’re always trying to balance, which is why we always are just so frustrated and overworking ourselves and overdoing it. But we have to really think about work, life integration and how we’re going to integrate the two. And it’s when I changed that language is when I actually started to actually feel better and gave myself permission to turn it off, because before, I was trying to balance and I couldn’t get the balance. Then I was like, “Oh, I have to figure out how to integrate it,” so…
JH:
I love that, integration.
RCK:
And let me tell you, Carmen, she’s all about the vocabulary. She finds the special vocabulary to make things… when you were telling me about make a mistake, but you refer to yourself positively, I’m so pretty.
CH:
Oh, yes. That was one of a woman who used to work for me. She gave that to me because whenever I made a mistake, she’s like, “Oh Carmen, you’re so pretty.” And I was like, you know what? I’m going to start saying that. Forget it.
JH:
I love that.
CH:
I make a mistake and the bigger the mistake, the bigger the pageant I’m winning.
RCK:
You know what? I think part of that also just adds to the positiveness of our minds, because I know that I can get into a rut of I did this wrong. I’ve said it time and time again and my husband gets very frustrated with me, because I’ve said over and over again, I fail my children every single day. And he’s like, “What are you talking about?” And I’m like, well, this happened. And that happened. And this happened. And he is like, “Okay, you know what? That’s called life.” And then he’s like, “So you need to stop with how you failed your family, you failed your child. You didn’t.” It’s a constant work in progress. So I know for me, that’s another aspect that I have to work on is finding better vocabulary that’s going to trigger more positive, more…
Well, just more positive thought process and positive momentum of what it is I’m trying to do, because when you’re constantly just sinking in on what didn’t happen, or how this worked out, or how this didn’t work out… One little thing I try to always remember, I try to avoid to say ‘don’t forget’. I often try to say, just remember so and so. Remember to do this, remember do that. And I was taught that many years ago, don’t use ‘don’t forget’, because you’re automatically starting with a negative, with the ‘don’t’. So just remember whatever it is that you want to remember. So I always try to keep that in mind.
JH:
You know Reisch, I just want to share something along those lines and not to get us off track, but our 14-year-old, almost 15-year-old recently taught us a lesson along those same lines and he’s a child with some special cognitive needs. And so keep this in mind as I share this, even when he’s so angry and so frustrated with us for asking him to do something he doesn’t want to do. He’ll say, I know you’re asking me to do this because you care about me, but,… insert teenage language here. And I think that is such an important reminder.
No matter how much we feel like we’re failing, if that is at the end of the day, the only lesson that these kiddos have is that we care about them, we love them, that is all they need. And I think we need to remind ourselves, as you said, remember, we need to remind ourselves of that too. If at the end of the day, we feel like we’ve done all these things wrong or we’ve made all these mistakes, as long as we are caring for ourselves and loving on ourselves with that positivity, it’s all we have to do. Day is won.
CH:
Can I take two quick things to that? I love this and yes, I’m all about vocabulary and what we’re telling ourselves, because so naturally 60% to 80% of what we tell ourselves is negative anyway. I mean, when we look in the mirror, the first thing we’re saying, “Oh my gosh, the bags under my eyes, my hair.” So we have to do a better job of saying positive things. And so I started changing my language instead of I have to, I get to. “Oh, I have to go to work.” No, I get to go to work. And I forget where and I really need to find out, remember who I heard that from so I can acknowledge the right person. But when I heard that, I was like, “Oh, yes, we’re going to start saying, ‘Oh, I get to,'” because that just changes the whole way of being, the whole way you’re feeling about something. It’s just… So…
RCK:
It lightens it up. It’s almost as if it removes a weight when the word is, “Ugh, I have to.” I mean, you just hear it. I have to, versus, oh my gosh, I get to do… And you’re already… You’re just lifted up. It just lifts you automatically. I think that-
JH:
And also the gratitude of it. How many people are out of work, or not finding the right work, or whatever hardships, or troubles there might be. Absolutely, it may not be perfect, but we get to do it.
RCK:
Well, and taking that knowledge of learning, this perfect segue into what I want to talk to you about. Because I know, Carmen, you are on a couple of different school boards ranging from pre-K up through high school. I’m wondering what is the importance for you specifically this particular age group, preschool to high school, what is the importance for you to be on those boards, those directorships with that particular group of children?
CH:
Well, I think for right now it’s because that’s where two of my children are at in school is in that range of pre-K to K. I have three children, I have a 21-year-old, who’s a junior in college, I have a 13-year-old, who’s going to the eighth grade and I have… Oh, I’m sorry, she’s going to her… The oldest one’s going to her senior year of college. And then I have a 13-year-old who’s going to eighth grade and a nine-year-old going into the fourth grade. So I’m really involved in that spectrum. And if you think about these early years, are such the developmental years of our brain and this is… How our teachers and our educators are interacting with our children is making such a huge impact, because you know what, at the end of the day, they’re spending more time with my children during the week than I am.
So I really want to make sure that I know what they’re saying, that I know how they’re showing up, and that they understand that that’s important as a parent. So I’m on the board of one of my children’s schools and then the other school, I just love their mission. It’s Waterside in Stamford, Connecticut, and their whole approach of looking at they want to give the best education to lower income students, families, but it’s state-of-the-art. When I first heard about that school, someone told me about it and I was like, is this going to be another one of these charity situations where they’re not given the best? And they’re saying all the right things, but they’re not doing all the right things? And so, I resisted even going to see the school for the first two years. And then finally, I said, “Okay, I’ll go look at the school.”
And then I went and I said, “Oh, oh my gosh, this is amazing.” I was like these children are getting support that they need and that mentorship and sponsorship from pre-K to fifth grade, you graduate at the fifth grade, when you leave that school. But you know what? That support is ongoing. We’re now starting an alumni program for our children who are graduating from college. They know that they can come back and come to us and we’re going to help them with whatever they’re dealing with. And that’s huge because this is communities don’t necessarily have that access. So I just fell in love with that whole mission and just recognizing the power of the difference that we’re making in these children’s lives from pre-K.
RCK:
And it’s honestly having a face such as yours, having someone as invested as you are, having someone who’s got the experience in the real world that you have, them being able to then see that is so beneficial to those kids. So they may not… And they don’t recognize it yet, most of them don’t understand that yet that, but they will, they will. I just had a situation. My high school guidance counselor recently passed away and that man was amazing. And I called to talk to his wife, his widow, and I got one of his daughters on the phone and we were talking and she said… I had apologized, because I know they’re dealing with planning the memorial and everything. And I said, “I know fielding phone calls is not really what you want to be doing right now.” And she said, “No, no, no, no, no.”
She said, “This is awesome.” She said, “Because I love hearing the stories about how he touched so many different people’s lives.” And he really did. I mean, this was a guy where I remember he was my counselor from only my freshman and sophomore year. He was my brother’s counselor, all four of my brothers’ high school years. But he went off to pursue music with his brothers and they started their country music group and they started touring everywhere. He did that my junior year, but I remember my first two years. He would call me out of class for no other reason than to find out, “How are you today?” That’s it, just… And not everybody… I was talking to my mom and I said, I’ve had both experiences on the scale of instructors, teachers, counselors, people who want to help, who are in education for the right reason and people who I don’t really know why they’re in education.
I’ve had this guy who would call me out of class just to check on me, to see how I’m doing, who would talk to my parents, who spoke at my brother’s memorial service. And then I’ve had the individual who, when I went to her as a 12, 13-year-old kid, dealing with bullying, asked her, said to her straight up, “I don’t need you to fight my battles for me. I would just like some advice on how I should handle this situation.” And her response to me is, “I can’t fight your battles,” turned her back and walked away. So I’ve seen both of those aspects. So when you have individuals and I realize that you’re not in the school, but as a member of these board of directors who is seeing what they’re doing and can have an influence on how they move forward, how they might change up some of their programs, how they might add something that might be missing.
I just think that is such an invaluable benefit for the kids. And I’m just grateful that you’re a part of that world in any way, shape, and form. So this has been fun. This has been great, but we also don’t want to keep your time. So we are going to go ahead and just say thank you so much for being a part of this. But before we go, before we wrap things up, Carmen, we do have what is called our rapid fire questions. So we’re just going to ask you three questions. We want your quick, to the point answer. So are you ready?
CH:
I’m ready.
RCK:
Okay. Here we go. Number one, is there a lesson that you’ve recently learned that you wish you had learned earlier in your career?
CH:
I think it’s that advice on integration. That’s something that I’m just now learning and I wish I did learn it earlier, because I burnt myself out in a number of situations because I was trying to balance.
JH:
I wrote it down two underlines underneath it, integration, I love it. Carmen, other than integration, what is one piece of advice that you would offer to any woman?
CH:
I also think that the other really big one is to follow your heart. And I really think that if you do something that makes you feel good and that you feel is following your purpose and you have an impact, go for it. Because I actually remember in 2010, I remember saying to someone, “I’m thinking about leaving the trading floor. I really want to start getting to diversity. So I think I’m going to go talk to the head of diversity and see if I can move into her group.” And this woman said to me, “Carmen, you don’t want to do that. That’s where you end your career and you’re doing so well or you are, don’t do that.”
And I wish I would’ve not listened to that advice. I wish I would’ve spoken to more people and got more advice. And I wish I would just followed my heart, because I knew that was where I was the happiest. And it wasn’t until my husband told me in 2012, he says, “You come home happiest either what you’ve done for diversity or how you develop talent, so you should actually think about moving to HR.” And after I cursed him out like, “Are you crazy? Do you not know who I am? Why would I ever go into HR?” I was like, “Wow, you’re really smart. I’m glad I married you. Yeah, that was good advice.” And I moved into HR and that was so smart.
RCK:
What a smart decision it was for me to bring you into my world as my husband.
CH:
Yes, exactly. So smart of me to say “I do”.
RCK:
In today’s professional setting, what is the most important skill for a woman?
CH:
There’s two things. I think we as women, one of the things we do is we tend to take things personal. And so I actually keep a QTIP on my desk, because QTIP stands for quit taking it personal. And so I keep it there because I think so many times we as women, we just take things too personal. So just stop it. I literally, here’s my QTIP. I keep it on all my computers. So I think that’s one, but then I also think it’s really about advocating for self and putting yourself forward. Too often, we also put other people’s needs ahead of ours and we don’t speak up for what we want, because we have the talent, we have the ability.
So I don’t think it’s a skill that we need. We have the skill set. We just don’t have the self-confidence sometimes to speak up because we’re concerned of the labels that come for women who show authority, that we have sharp elbows and all these other negative connotations that come to it, versus men who do it, they’re leaders. And I think that we just need to power through that and lead with that authoritative way, but with compassion, because that’s natural.
JH:
Carmen, you are doing some incredible work in the City of Stamford. And like you said earlier, even talking with people in other cities. How can our listeners connect with you online?
CH:
Oh, if they want to connect with me through email, I’m at CHughes1@Stamfordct.gov. And I’ll spell my last name. It’s C H-U-G-H-E-S the number 1 @Stamfordct.gov.
JH:
Excellent. And we’ll link to that in the transcript of this podcast. So people can have an easy connection to you. Carmen Hughes, thank you again for being here today. That is all for this episode of Think Tank of Three.
AF:
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JH:
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RCK:
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