All realtors will tell you that home is where the heart is — and all sorts of cutesy slogans! But it’s different for Think Tank of Three podcast guest, Amy Jackson. “Home,” she says, “should be a place of love, comfort, and security.”
From home ownership to fair housing. It’s all ahead on the podcast!
Podcast Episode Transcript:
Julie Holton:
Welcome to the show. I’m Julie Holton with Audrea Fink and Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris. We are your Think Tank of Three.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
We’ve seen a lot of our homes in the last two years, thanks to the pandemic, but it’s also something we don’t want to take for granted.
Audrea Fink:
And our guest today knows a thing or two about finding the perfect home. Amy Jackson is an accomplished realtor in Michigan’s capital city. She’s in the top 5% of all real estate agents internationally. That’s correct. Top 5% internationally. She has also received Coldwell Banker’s Circle of Excellence Award as one of the agency’s top producing agents. And she has a strong reputation for her commitment to the community. In 2018, she was honored with the hero award for her local impact. And the list goes on.
Julie Holton:
Before real estate, Amy Jackson was a global service manager for a corporate 500 company. Then she ran her own successful marketing business. She is also a very close personal friend, so I can tell you without a doubt, Amy is just one amazing human being and I am so excited to welcome her to the show. Amy, thanks for joining us today.
Amy Jackson:
Oh, my goodness. Thank you guys for having me. What an honorable welcome there. Thank you.
Julie Holton:
Well, you’re the one who did all the hard work. We’re just reading it out loud and making you listen because I was telling the ladies you are so humble. You’re probably going to cringe through the whole introduction, but you guys, she has earned every honor because she is exactly who she says she is. So, she presents herself to the world and with such a heart to help others. In fact, I want to read something that Amy sent out in an email during the pandemic.
“Did you know,” she writes, “only half of Americans know their neighbors’ names?” Only half of Americans know their neighbors’ names. “Living by the golden rule, ‘Love thy neighbor as yourself,’ has been a core value in my life. But recently I asked myself, do I even really know my neighbors?” She goes on to write, “To me, home is beyond the walls and square footage we rest in. It’s our neighborhoods, local shops, schools, places of worship and everything in between. These homes should be a place of love, comfort, and security. It is my life’s work to be an advocate for home ownership, for fair housing and a place for all to be welcomed.” Amy, I was so moved when you first wrote this, I remember talking to you about it at the time.
And I’m moved again today, reading it because you take it so seriously. Remember the time we were talking about what companies or entrepreneurs should or should not say during the pandemic, during the protest, during all these things, all the turmoil that was happening in our country. And we were talking about branding and when should we speak up and when should we not? And when does personal intersect with professional and I remember you decided you were going to write this heartfelt letter because it represents you and your family. So, I have to ask what drives you? What makes you such a fierce advocate to make sure that everyone has a loving community?
Amy Jackson:
I remember that place so significantly because we’re all stuck in our homes, but yet it didn’t feel quite like home in the beginning. Everything felt really awkward and uncomfortable. I remember going on walks with my family and still not really sure if people… we could wave to them or how they were feeling. You and I met in parking lots, staying safe distance to each other, just trying to keep friendships alive. So for me, I think when we think about home and community, that’s what makes home feel the same. You can go into someone’s house and right next door, feel completely different. I think how that person interacts with their neighbors and being able to have a sense of community that if you need something, whether a cup of sugar or a mask, that you have someone next to you to be able to do that.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
How have you created your own community? And I ask this because a lot of people struggle to build connections, finding that special tribe, especially when you’re an adult. I remember having this conversation, making friends as an adult is a difficult task. Especially if you have moved to a new place where you don’t know anyone, and it’s very easy to just insulate yourself with what’s inside of the four walls of your home. So, how do you do that? How have you built your community?
Amy Jackson:
Well, I’m still learning that. I think that I’m valuing whatever community does come to me. So the people that do come to me, I feel like I don’t want to ever take that for granted that our paths have crossed for a reason, whether that’s a… kind of an old church saying is, “A reason, season, or a lifetime.” So, I really try not to take for granted that if I meet someone and I have a good relationship, I’m really lucky that quite a few of my clients become really good friends. And I tell people, “It’s not a requirement. If you don’t like me, that’s okay.” But you’re walking alongside people and you really get to be a support to them in a really vulnerable place. And I don’t really ever want to take that for granted. And even my friendships that I meet, like how Julie and I met, and even meeting you ladies today, I just don’t want to ever take that for granted.
I moved in my high school years, my freshman year in high school. So, I remember being the new kid in freshman year, which you think would be the worst idea. And it was the best thing that could have ever happened to us. We moved to a small town with one stop light. I remember the realtor actually telling us, “Yeah, well, we only got one stop light. This is it.” And we were suburb kids, so we’re like, “What? There’s no mall, no drive-thru? What do you guys do here?” And it was that small town that really raised me, that you waved to neighbors, even though we didn’t know anybody in that town, you waved to everybody. They’re there for you. There’s a special dynamic for that, and I think now I want to recreate that same feeling that when I’m welcoming people home, that they get that same feeling, that they’re welcoming themselves into a neighborhood, and to a community of people that want to see them there and invite them there and wave hello to them.
Julie Holton:
Amy, I think what really stands out to me about even waving hello to your neighbors and why that quote about how so many of us don’t know who’s living right next door. It stands out to me because at a time when there are a lot of divisive issues and these big topics that we feel like we need to tackle, these major worldwide problems. And to you, I remember you boiled it down and you said, “Well, it all starts at home. It all starts with how we interact on a daily basis with the people we come into contact with.” And for me, even now, it brings it all back to center where I think, “Okay, there might be this big issue. Maybe it’s a work issue. Maybe it’s a life issue, something out there, pandemic issue. There are these big issues out there that I don’t have control over, but what I do have control over, is waving at my neighbors, saying hello, inviting someone in,” that kindness. And so it’s really interesting to even hear how you incorporate that into your daily life. Why is that so important to you?
Amy Jackson:
Well, I think actually the first question about that letter that I wrote and how we had these conversations with branding and business and a little bit of our honest little rants, I think that we were having. How some people [inaudible 00:08:23]-
Not us. Maybe just me, that it felt like maybe there was… I always want to be genuine. And so, I didn’t want to just use it as a platform to have a conversation. And so, when that letter came out, it was really, probably several weeks into all these things happening, but it just became pulling everything away, pulling the curtain away from everything that became one side or another or whatever, these different things that were crossing up that were causing so many people to be divided. As we drove through our neighborhood, we were seeing signs and things that were going up that were creating the neighbors not waving at each other maybe.
Because now what they didn’t know behind closed doors has become more vocal and it’s like, we are still neighbors and we are still going to be here together. And so, we want to be able to respect each other for a common ground, even if we don’t have to be on all these different things. So for me, it’s really being able to see that we have these neighbors and we do have something in common, even if it’s just our address. And we don’t have to agree with someone to still love on them in some way. I don’t have to really like them to still in a way, respect them enough to have a common courtesy as a wave.
Audrea Fink:
Amy, your tagline is, “Serve, sell, repeat,” which I love having a sales background, having the service part come first. So, what does this mean to you, especially the focus on serving your clients?
Amy Jackson:
Yeah, so that tagline really kind of became from a sticky note that is now hanging in my office. When I first started in real estate and I was six months pregnant waddling into my cubicle every day with no clients, I had went in there every day and just was going online, doing online training, creating forms for clients that didn’t exist. And I was really discouraged. I’m not from here. I don’t have this base of connections here, that other people in my industry just seemed to have. And so, I was feeling very inadequate. So, maybe another topic for another day, but I was really just struggling in this first season in my career.
And knowing that over 80% of real estate agents, after three years, aren’t in our business any longer. So, I knew every day counted, so I needed to make the most of it. In that season though, just in struggling, I just felt like… truly my faith was, if you have a servant’s heart, you’ll be a success. If I treat people right, if I do the right thing, if I truly just focus on serving them, everything else will fall into place. And I have found that to be super true. So, that’s been my foundation. If I serve well, I’m going to sell. And then the goal is just to keep repeating that process and it can hopefully be that simple, although it’s not, but just keeping my focus right.
Julie Holton:
Speaking of serving Amy, you have a special place in your heart for single mothers. I myself was raised by one for a few years. So, I personally understand this passion, especially, those women who give everything, they’ve got to make life better for their little one, because that was my mom early on in my life. Tell us about your work specifically with women and why that’s so important to you.
Amy Jackson:
Well, same with you. My mom was a single mom and she’s a hoot. That’s kind of what I call her. She’s just a hoot, because she was a police officer. She was one of the first women police officers in the city of Flint in the seventies. So y’all can only imagine that she was a true Charlie’s Angel, but seeing her being able to keep my brother and I moving and grooving in all of our sports and everything else that we went through, but she always had a focus to give back. So we were… whether it was Thanksgiving and we were able to help out in different community organizations to give food, or focusing on we’re giving our clothes and toys away, finding opportunities to give that to people who would want to keep using it, if we’re no longer doing that.
So, I think finding ways to do that and whether that’s single moms or single dads just doing anything alone is very hard. Even doing business alone, anything that you have to do by yourself, I think breeds so much where you need confidence. You don’t have the support to tell you if you’re doing it right or wrong. Some of the best things to happen to me was when we first had our son, my best friend would tell time after time, “It’s normal.” I didn’t know what normal was because this was all new. So when I think of… for women, just for them to be empowered and having that sense of support that sometimes we don’t always feel like we have, or we don’t feel like we’re receiving it genuinely. So, we question ourselves, we question our relationships, we question our decisions. So, being able to find pockets where I can be that for somebody, is just something I hope to do.
Julie Holton:
When it comes to empowering women, what do you wish that they knew about home ownership?
Amy Jackson:
I think I wish that women, women and anyone would know, is that it’s possible. I think knowing that it’s so possible and it’s so obtainable to be able to do, and it’s manageable. Most women, we are master managers. Managers of the universe, in my opinion. And so, knowing that you can manage your household and sometimes it can feel overwhelming with all of the other plates that we’re juggling. “Well, what do I have to do if something goes wrong?” Or, “I don’t just have a number to dial and they’ll be there to fix it up within 48 hours.” I think being able to help them see how that is possible, whether that’s a financial question of, “Where do I start?” Or, “What do I need to do? What does that look like?” Or just in a managing standpoint is, “How is this going to look? How can I do this in a sustainable way? Or does it feel like another burden for me?” And kind of just taking some of those pieces away and letting them see it’s possible.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
With allowing or helping people to see that the home ownership is possible. That kind of works also within advocacy for fair housing. Can you talk about the inequities that are existing within the housing market? How is it that you are advocating for community in a system that has some unfair play going on?
Amy Jackson:
Well, there’s a lot of unfair play, unfortunately, that we continue to go through and I think this will be just kind of a forever battle as humans that we’re going to have to go through. And a lot of that starts with their own individual hearts, but where I can start to come into play is being able to go one person at a time. And being able to see where they are, where they want to go, or even helping them see where they could go and how to be able to get there. I want to do better with being a part of fair housing. It’s a requirement for us in our licensure, but more importantly, I think that people don’t realize that it’s happening every single day. There are still neighborhoods in our community that have restrictions that are now illegal, but still abide in their legal paperwork.
And that should just be universally abolished. And the fact that there’s so many loopholes that has to be done for something that should be in my opinion, immediate, without question, it takes a bigger platform for people to support that. I think being able to kind of pull back and say, “If I could impact one person and make sure that they don’t feel that way.” I had a client last year who unfortunately, was working with another realtor and was not feeling like they were getting a fair support in their decision to buy a home. This other realtor had sold their home. So, they were paid, right? So, let’s be honest, they’ll just say what they want to say. They were compensated for their time and sold this house. And they were working with this, who became my client to buy a home.
So, now you have another opportunity to earn this person’s business, because that’s what we’re doing. I’m earning her business. I’m working for this. She is giving me this opportunity. And I think that’s one mistake some people make, is they think that they just got it like that. We need to work and earn it. But more importantly, is this person had no peace in her. So, through this whole process, she felt that she was being treated unfair and didn’t know any different. So, when we met at an open house, she was like, “Wait, this can be different. This can be a good experience. I can feel like I’m getting shown houses that I really want in the neighborhoods I want to see.” That’s a huge problem. And that was a huge heart problem for me, that angered me.
So, I feel like when something angers you, you have to be a part of the solution. So, that’s something that I have really driven into that I want to learn and be better at, to help her. So, thankfully she found an amazing house. Her sister lives with her. This will be their forever home and they’ve actually become really good friends of mine. But I think her being able to see that there can be a difference and she can have a different experience, is so important because now she can tell somebody else, “If you’re not happy, don’t stay somewhere that you’re not being served properly. You need to go and get someone who’s going to do that.” I don’t care if it’s me or not, but don’t settle for someone that you don’t feel comfortable with.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
I think you just tied into something that people really struggle with remembering when it comes to real estate. And what they’re doing is to remember, the realtor works for you, not the other way around. They’re servicing your word, you. And I think we all did… when we’ve been in that situation, I know when we were looking to buy our house, my husband and I, at moments, I felt like, “I don’t want to make the realtor mad.” And he’s looking at me. He’s like, “What do you mean make the…” No, no. There’s no, “I don’t want to make the realtor mad.” They work for us, it’s not the other way around. And I think people tend to forget that.
Amy Jackson:
They really do. Well, there’s nothing to see. All we watch is HGTV or Netflix. We have not the true picture of what that real estate professional should be. And so, I think, not completely answering the question, but I think really being able to see that we have to pull that back. This is a person who’s serving you. And for most people, one of the biggest financial decisions you’re ever going to make. And next to death and divorce, it’s one of the most stressful transactions that somebody’s going to make. So, not only do you need to be confident in this person beside you, you also have to feel like they’re supporting you because you’re right. We’re here to serve you. And you have to feel confident that you can text them and call them and gripe and stress and do all those things and put it all on the table, because they’re here to guide you through that.
Audrea Fink:
What should homeowners be looking out for? How do they know when they’re getting unfair treatment and what are some ways that can combat when they do see that they’re not being treated fairly?
Amy Jackson:
Well, that’s a great question. And I don’t know if I’ll have all the answers to that completely, but I can say that I think that one, expectations. I always say to my client, “I want to know what your expectations are, because I always want to exceed them and I’m not going to be capable of exceeding your expectations, if it’s not clear to me what your expectations are.” And vice versa, I let my clients know, “I live in my car. I sell houses but I live in my car.” I’m always driving, touring houses and I’m very strict that I don’t want to be a texting and driving person. I see it on the road, it’s very unsafe. It drives me bonkers.
So, “If you don’t get a communication back to me, I’m probably on the road or saw it at a stoplight. So, don’t hesitate to reach out to me later.” But I think that when it comes to feeling like you’re not being communicated to properly, if you feel like you’re not being heard as far as what you want. One of the biggest restrictions that we see specifically with fair housing is people being prompted to different areas and neighborhoods. That’s the biggest thing that’s being done, is that people are being redlined into areas that people deem to be certain areas based on what they think certain people may like and not like.
And that is, to me, one of the biggest offenses and I’m certain statistically that’s one of the big offenses is that we see, is that people think that they know something better than somebody else. My past client, she was wanting a house in a wonderful certain neighborhood and continually was being shown houses specifically outside of the neighborhood that she wanted. So, then she began to think that, “I can’t have a house there. It’s not possible. Maybe I can’t even afford it.” Well, guess what? She got a house in the neighborhood and she loves it and it’ll be her forever home. And that’s something that is important, “Why can’t you?” There’s no reason why those things have to be pulled away. And if you don’t have someone supporting you in doing that, that’s a huge issue.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
It’s also a part of… you just said it with redlining as well. It’s not just what they think they like, it’s also what you look like. “You don’t really necessarily fit this particular neighborhood. So, let me show you the neighborhood that might work better for how you seem to me.” And we’ve heard stories about that. We’ve heard stories with… I have an interracial marriage and we’ve heard stories about interracial marriages where a woman or a couple or a single woman, looking to get a house. She said, “I need to borrow my friend’s husband to represent this house that I own and see what happens.” And the differences in what happens from being a Black single woman, even a professional Black single woman, to a white male, made a huge difference in what was happening with the selling of her home, the searching of a purchase for a home. And it just blows my mind because here we are in 2022, and this is still happening.
Amy Jackson:
Well, there’re no consequences, right? We hear these stories and it’s so infuriating to think that, but it is the reality. And it’s not just in our industry, it’s kind of everywhere we’re seeing that. I’m in an interracial marriage as well. And I see the difference and how we’re treated when we go on vacation. We go into resorts, if I walk in and then we walk in together, it can be completely treated differently. It’s one thing, if it’s a place I’m choosing, but when it comes to a business transaction and someone who’s having a salaried or paid profession, there should be consequences for that. So, whether I’m choosing to be on a beach and how we’re treated there, or I’m paying you Mr. Appraiser, or whoever it might be, and they’re being treated that… we also have to be able to say, “Hold on a second. This is not right. There needs to be discussion.” And most importantly, there needs to be some accountability.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
We often discuss a great deal about the balance aspect of things and real estate, that’s seven days a week all the time. That’s not eight to five, Monday through Friday, weekends off. That is seven days a week. So, in doing that, in trying to make sure that you are servicing your client and trying to make sure that you are also there with regards to your family. And let’s be honest with yourself, because one thing we do discuss a great deal about is, you need to have the, “you time.” The, “I’m not dealing with the kids. I’m not dealing with the husband. I’m not dealing with the other stuff. It’s my time to sit on the couch if I want to and watch Grey’s Anatomy.” So, how do you handle that aspect of making sure that you’re in line with you?
Amy Jackson:
I’m probably… that’s something I need to get better at, if I add to the club of being better with self care. I think I feel better about my myself when things are in order, I’m an order person. I’m a type A kind of gal. I like bullet point, I like a sticky note. So, I just have to handle whatever’s in front of me right now. I don’t like things to be until tomorrow. So, if I can get that done and get the answer, then I feel at rest. And that makes me feel better when I’m trying to juggle too much or put too much off. That makes me feel off balance. So for instance, this morning, my son graduated from preschool. I want to be 100% present to that. I sent expectations with clients, I spoke to last night that, “I’ll be in touch with you tomorrow afternoon.”
So, I could be there fully present in the morning. I could go to brunch with my family after. And then as soon as I got in the car, I was able to deliver great news. My buyer got a call… a new house and great news, things happened. So I was able to deliver that. And in that time… that was few hours. Other offers came in for another client. So, it really allowed me to actually have a more fruitful conversation afterwards, because now more things have accumulated and then I could be present where I need to be. It’s not always going to be the case. Sometimes my clients are going to pull me away and I’m not watching the baseball game or I’m going to have longer days and I’m not going to see my husband and son. But those are just the balances that we really get to have. And I’m really grateful to be able to have them. But I realize not everybody can really live that way. Some people thrive off of having the structure of eight to five. Somehow I can manage the chaos.
Julie Holton:
Amy, it is easy to hear why you are in the top 5% of realtors, just a wonderful woman inside and out. Thank you so much for being on the show today.
Amy Jackson:
Thank you guys for this opportunity and this conversation. This is great.
Julie Holton:
Before we go, we’re not letting you off the hook just yet. We like to collect advice from each of our guests so that we have all of this insight to share with our Think Tank of Three forum. So, we have three rapid fire questions for you. Number one, is there a lesson that you’ve recently learned, that you wished you would’ve learned earlier in your career?
Amy Jackson:
Setting boundaries, setting expectations, clearly communicating what those are, and being confident in them. People respect them, if you set them in a positive light. People completely respect you for them.
Audrea Fink:
What is one piece of advice you would offer to any woman?
Amy Jackson:
Find a way to grow your confidence internally that doesn’t have to be an outward expression of your confidence, but just internally feel confident in your abilities or what your future might be. Even if you’re not 100% there, if you’re only at 98 or 52, be super solid into 52 of where you are and where you want to be. Just find your inner confidence.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
In today’s professional setting, what is the most important skill for women?
Amy Jackson:
I think being ourselves. This picture that we have to be this power woman or this dynamic, whatever it is that we need for our field, I think we need to toss that out and be ourselves. I felt at first that I couldn’t be vocal about how much I loved being a mom and how much I adore my husband and that I just needed everyone to know that I am here for business and that’s not me. And I have found that really, the more I felt confident in myself and just being genuine to myself, all the right people have come into my circle and that’s the most rewarding thing. Is that, I’m myself and that’s being celebrated and I don’t need to do anything else.
Julie Holton:
How empowering it is when we finally start to settle into that inner confidence in who we are. Amy Jackson, where can our listeners connect with you online? How can they get in touch with you?
Amy Jackson:
Sure. So, of course I’m on LinkedIn. I’m Amy Jackson. 517-realestate.com is my website. I’m on Instagram, 517realestate. And of course, on Facebook too.
Julie Holton:
Amy, thanks so much for being here today. And that is all for this episode of Think Tank of Three.
Audrea Fink:
If you have topics you’d like us to cover or guests, you’d like to hear from, send us a message@thinktankofthree@gmail.com. Subscribe to the Think Tank of Three, wherever you listen to podcasts and connect with us online. We blog weekly at thinktankofthree.com.
Julie Holton:
Follow us on social media. You can find us individually on LinkedIn and as Think Tank of Three on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Women, click to join our private group on Facebook, where we can all share advice and articles.
Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And if you liked what you heard in the podcast, share it. You can find Think Tank of Three on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Google play, Amazon Music and SoundCloud.