Who says the NFL is a man’s world? One individual who has completely made a name for herself and garnered the respect of players, coaches, broadcasters, the entire NFL is Pam Oliver.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Who says the NFL is a man’s world? One individual who has completely made a name for herself and garnered the respect of players, coaches, broadcasters, the entire NFL is Pam Oliver.

Hi, this is Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris, here with Julie Holton, and Audrea Fink, And we are your Think Tank of Three. Today’s guest is the second lead sideline reporter for the NFL on FOX. And it’s no accident that she’s been an institution with a network heading into her 26th year.

Audrea Fink:
How did she do it? How does she continue to move with the ever changing times?

Julie Holton:
Pam is going to tell us, and maybe even inspire you to put on your Eye black and carve out a niche for yourself in whatever field you choose.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Welcome Pam Oliver of the NFL on FOX. Thank you for taking the time to join us today.

Pam Oliver:
It’s my pleasure. When you talk about 26 seasons, I just got tired right then and there, I’m exhausted.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
[inaudible 00:01:29]. You’ve worked hard.
Pam Oliver:
I don’t know how that happened but guess so I don’t know how that happens but…

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Because you’re the bomb that’s how that happened. Well, so let’s, let’s do a quick refresh. I realize 26 years, but what originally brought you to the NFL?

Pam Oliver:
Well, it started when I left ESPN and went to FOX, specifically to do football, because at the time, that was their only property. Done some NFL at ESPN, but then FOX sort of wooed me away to cover the NFC, which was exciting, it’s still exciting, which people don’t necessarily believe when they say, “You’ve been doing it that long? You still love it?” And the answer is yes. And it’s because I’m fortunate to be able to do something I’ve loved for decades. Football was the thing in the Oliver household growing up and my mother was the one leading the charge. She’s like, “I’m cooking dinner early, 1:00 the Cowboys are playing Washington and I don’t want any mess. So here we go.” So we all sort of piled around the TV and watched football. So that’s why I feel fortunate because all of these years later, I was able to make a career out of covering the NFL and to still be alive and kicking. I realized that doesn’t happen often to have this kind of longevity, but I think I’ve earned it and I’ll continue to take it as long as I’m fulfilled.

Audrea Fink:
Awesome. There’s no question that the NFL is very much a man’s world. So you’ve got 26 years, kicking ass in a man’s world. How did you approach it?

Pam Oliver:
I approached it as if, I didn’t necessarily put the woman thing first or the African American woman thing first, I put, I’m a reporter first, and I’m here to do a job, I’m here to report on the specific sport. So I didn’t ever let these guys control or dictate what I felt I was able to accomplish. As long as you know your stuff and you work hard, these sound like cliches, but it’s really is a success formula. I didn’t necessarily go into it wanting to be known or a star or anything like that, which is kind of what I think a lot of these young women today consider it as an avenue to be a celebrity, Which I’ve never understood and will not understand.

But I just had my way of approaching it and I didn’t compromise that I’m a reporter, I’m a journalist, it’s something I wanted to do since I was a kid. I was the nerdy one, running home to watch television news, all my friends were out playing. So my love for it started really, really early. And all these years later, to still be doing it, I understand is a luxury, but I also was not going to let people dictate to me, men dictate to me what it is that I’m going to do and be successful at, it just wasn’t an option, so that was my approach.

Julie Holton:
Pam high five, because I was also that little girl who was the geeky one at home pretending to be a reporter.

Pam Oliver:
With a hair brush.

Julie Holton:
Oh yes, mom’s high heels on, walking down the road. You’re talking and it’s resonating with me because I spent 12 years working in TV news, which is very much a man’s world. And I’m curious for you, what has been the most difficult aspect of, not just like getting through and surviving, but really thriving in this field?

Pam Oliver:
It goes back to something I said earlier, it’s a passion of mine, and when you’re able to combine the fact that you’re working in a great sport, covering this great game and the fact that you love your journalistic part of it, I did eight years of news so that’s how I got my footing. So I understand what you’re saying with that. Yeah, I just always tried to just do my best and making sure that I knew… know what you’re talking about. Coaches and players know that you know what you’re talking about and they respect you for it. Even now I’m older, I’ve got my little booklet here that you can’t see but it’s my annual getting ready for football preparation magazine while we were waiting to go on. I was glancing through that, but that’s just the preparation, season’s around the corner. and with preparation, I think you set yourself up for success and that’s been part of it for me.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And that preparation part is so true because players, they know when you’re faking the funk. They know when you’re just kind of asking questions that were given to you, and they like to test, They do like to test you, I can attest to that, because I was in that world with you at one point in time. And I think one of the other things, one of the aspects that I had to overcome myself, or not deal with, was the doubt. And I’m wondering, did you ever doubt yourself? And if you did, how did you get through that? If you didn’t, why not?

Pam Oliver:
I’m sure I doubted myself at times. You can have a bad game, you can have a bad live shot, You can have just an unfortunate occurrence, but you can walk away from that and sort of doubt yourself at that moment but I have this cutoff period. Okay, I didn’t have a good game, I’m going to stew Sunday night, I’ll give it till Monday around two o’clock because I have to turn the page to the next week. So, of course I have doubts. I have doubts in a number of areas of my life, as a lot of us do, a lot of women have a lot of doubts. Men too. But I confess to it and this is not been all peaches and cream, there hasn’t been a major… well I have had a major shakeup, but… yeah, I kind of did, didn’t I?

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
We’ll get to that.

Pam Oliver:
Almost made it.

Reischea Canidate-Kapaosuris:
Ya’ outed yourself.

Pam Oliver:
Almost made it, damn. Come on girl. Come on girl, but yeah, there’s definitely been periods of doubt. Just not for long periods of doubt.

Audrea Fink:
I love that you own the moments of doubt and then say, “Okay, but there’s a time limit.” And I think that is a really valuable tool to moving on past those doubts. And it’s one that I think more people could benefit from. Like it’s okay to feel those feelings. It’s okay to be in that moment of, “Oh, I screwed up.” I had a really big screw up that I’m not going to talk on this podcast at work last week. Really, really visible. Small mistake, but extraordinarily visible. And it took me all day of sweating and stress and having to have a couple glasses of wine to get over it. And then on Saturday morning, I woke up and thought, “It’s over, it’s over done.”

Pam Oliver:
It’s in the o-zone. That’s what I call it, it’s in the o-zone.

Audrea Fink:
Yeah, it’s powerful when you can…

Pam Oliver:
It is powerful.

Audrea Fink:
… let yourself feel it but then let it go.

Pam Oliver:
Yeah, you got to feel it, you got to own it and you got to know that, that’s a mistake You’re going to hope not to make again but chances are, you will make mistakes. And it’s how you rebound from them that I found gives me sanity. It’s like, “Okay, it’s over, it’s done.” But it bothers you for a minute or two or half a day or whatever it is. But you know you’re going to try to come back and do your best and you got to understand that you’re human, you’ve got to make mistakes.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
I also feel like that’s one of those things that we, as women, handle differently than men. I am not one of those people that says, “We’re the same as men.” We’re not. We are different beings. We are just as sharp, smart, and awesome but we handle things differently, We internalize things differently. And I think that that has a lot to do with also that… a guy makes a mistake and it’s like, “Ah, [crosstalk 00:10:01]”

Pam Oliver:
Oh yeah, he just misspoke.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Even how it’s directed at us. I remember when I was at ESPN, I said a name wrong or I might’ve mixed up a word instead of saying SWAT, I think I said sweat or something like that. Okay, how many times are guys making missteps with their words and no one is like, “Hey, you know, you said that wrong.” I’m like, when every single one of you can say my name correctly on the air for once, talk to me about misspeaking.

Audrea Fink:
Yes.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
But I digress.

Julie Holton:
Well, I want to ask you ladies though, because, okay, so all three of you, this is Julie here, so all three of you have said that when you, and I relate to this too, it’s not just you three, but I want to ask you a little bit deeper on this. So when you make a mistake and you let yourself sit with it for a while, whatever that time period is, and then you kind of say, “Okay, time to get over it, let’s let’s move forward.” I think there are a lot of women, and myself included at times, that we sit with it a little too long.

So when you’re sitting with it, what is that process you’re going through? How are you actually, because sometimes I think we have to, when we go down that rabbit hole, we have to go down the hole, we have to feel what’s there, we have to find out why we’re feeling what we’re feeling, we’ve to dig through that, sort that out before we can come back out better. So what do you do when you’re down in that rabbit hole to come back out better when you come up the other side?

Pam Oliver:
Really determination, I just can’t let myself wallow, there’s just not enough time, you literally have to turn that page. So I’ve done 30 hours of homework to do the three hour football game, now I’ve got to start it all over again. That’s just part of the job, but that doesn’t mean our job is so public. Ree knows this because our job is so public, it hangs out there, there are plenty of bloopers out there of me on YouTube.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Numerous sites. And not just you, I have them, plenty.

Pam Oliver:
I remember a game in London and I could not adjust to that time change. And they came to me to do my report and I was comfortable with it, I knew what I was going to say, but right when they came to me it went poof. And I’m stammering looking like a complete idiot and you feel about that small, but I spent the rest of the game in that rabbit hole feeling like, “Oh God, how am I going to get out of this?” You’re only as good to me as whatever report that is after you’ve had the major catastrophe. So, I spent the rest of that game trying to get back on track because it’s fast, it’s a fast moving game, you’re looking… so I treated it as, “Okay, that wasn’t the best way to start now it’s how you finish.” And that’s how I approached it, and I got over it, I got over it, but it was a long flight home, trust me.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And knowing that every single person on the air, on the sideline, in the booth, has had that moment [inaudible 00:13:16] point blank.

Pam Oliver:
Absolutely.

Julie Holton:
And everyone’s sitting at home on their couches watching you thinks they know. They are the armchair, going to tell you what to do and what you did wrong, but they have no idea that pressure and that feeling.

Pam Oliver:
They have no idea.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And it is such a public forum and such a public media. And that’s another thing when you have, like you’re saying it, an armchair quarterback, even with regards to the reporters and the anchors and the broadcast booth people. Everyone at home thinks this is not that hard of a job.

Pam Oliver:
Because they’re telling you what to say right?

Audrea Fink:
I do not think that. I’d just like to say, for the record, I do not think that.

Pam Oliver:
The men are telling us what to say.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Exactly, it’s like, “Well, they’re just telling you what to say.” It’s like, “No, I actually-

Pam Oliver:
No. That is my biggest pet peeve in life to people to actually think some person is in your ear, there is somebody in your ear, but-

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
They’re giving you time cues.

Pam Oliver:
They give me time kill. They sound like they’re saying, “Oh, ask this,” but sometimes you do have to listen to that person because you’re missing something. And you’ll take that guidance but my biggest pet peeve in life and it’s so insulting when someone says to you, “Well, what are people telling you to say in your ear?” No one’s telling me to say anything. I worked hard for that information and I don’t need that, I don’t want that, and it really kind of pisses me off.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And you have earned your status.

Pam Oliver:
Thank you.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
You have worked your tail off. You have been an inspiration. You were such a friend to me, that’s how we developed our friendship. But it also, hasn’t all been bright and bubbly.

Pam Oliver:
Here we go.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
I know, here we go. Here, we get into that emotional side. FOX takes away their lead status for you, for some ridiculous reason, after having proven who you are and proving your worth top to bottom, they make their decision to move you from your team and your well-earned position. What got you through that to acceptance, to not just saying, “I’m out.”

Pam Oliver:
I had to walk through a lot of pain, and I’m not going to sugar coat it, that’s what it was. I was devastated, I was hurt, I couldn’t escape it. Fortunately, I had some time to process it before another season started, but I don’t mind telling you that I hit the bottom on that one. It was my first professional setback of that magnitude and didn’t necessarily see that coming, didn’t think it was fair, but life’s not always fair. I often wonder… the only time I really, really kind of there’s a residual hurt is during the playoffs.

I’m used to doing the playoffs, I’m not used to hosting parties as we watch the playoffs. But I fully acknowledged that that was a dark place, that was a hard place. And how do I come back from it? I let myself, just let it take it’s course. It’s not going to be easy, it’s not going to get easier tomorrow. It may get easier in some months, but it did take to me a good half a year to kind of be able to not think about it all day, every day, go to bed, thinking about it, wake up, thinking about it. But I always said, I call it my promotion demotion because I then became a senior correspondent. That was my new title.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
There you go.

Pam Oliver:
Since when does FOX have correspondents? Anyway, but that was my little promotion demotion, but I was so lucky that I was able to land in a group that just welcomed me with open arms. It’s a relationship that is a mutual kind of adoration society with that because that got me through. They welcomed me with open arms, they were happy to have me, couldn’t believe they had me. And I just landed in a pot of gold, as I said, more than a few times because that’s really what it was. That was a doozy. That was a doozy, but I think the thing that was much more difficult was people pitying me. I didn’t want that pity.

Pam Oliver:
Oh, that’s a tough one. People like, “Oh you okay?” And I understand that part but then it’s just like, “Oh that poor girl, what’s she going to do?” I was walking into Macy’s minding my own business and it seemed like the person who was passing me somewhat recognized me because she voiced to her boyfriend, she says, “Oh, you know that girl from FOX, she got fired.” And I was like, “No, that’s not exactly what happened,” but stuff like that just felt like every time I turned around, there was some comment or just that pity thing that I was not accustomed to, that I had to get past.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And so public effect, you can’t even deal with it in private?

Pam Oliver:
Nope. Nope.

Audrea Fink:
One of the things that I heard you say that I think is maybe why your story is so impressive for me is that you took this really demotivating, frustrating moment, and at the end of the day you said, “Okay, so I dealt with it, I sat with it. It took me maybe six months to a year to not think about it all the time,” which is really not that long if you consider how long you are doing your job. And then you landed and the group of people you work with made it worth it. So now you have this success story out of what was a lot of struggle, and you’ve built a new tribe, if you will, maybe you like to call it a tribe, that made this meaningful and valuable to you.

Pam Oliver:
Yes. Made it easier for me to deal with. We’ve never talked about it, as a group, we’ve never talked about when I was with Kevin and John Lynch was still with us. Then it was Kevin Burkhardt and then it was Charles Davis, Pete Macheska, the producer, Artie Kempner, the director, there was never a sit down, it’s like, “We know you’ve been through a lot” They understood that I’d gone through a lot, but I didn’t want to drag that cloud in there with me. I totally threw myself into my work. It helped tremendously but I didn’t want to go about it in an unhealthy way to where I was ignoring what I was feeling and going through and sort of trying to disguise that by being some workaholic.

I can be a workaholic, but I was really determined to be true to myself and just to feel it., it’s okay, just feel it. And when you’re able to let it go, let it go. It ran its course, but don’t think for a moment that it leaves you totally. It was just my first and only career kick in the teeth. People go through that all the time, people have misfortunes in work and so in a way I’m kind of lucky. It didn’t feel that way at the time, but that was just a really difficult time and to be able to be in television, but the news part of it, for over 30 years, 34 now I think, and that being the clincher, I wasn’t going to let that be it. I wasn’t going to let that define me. That was, I’m telling you right now, I made that a point and I was not going to be defined by that. Period. Sorry. Sorry.

Julie Holton:
I wish our audience could see your face right now because the determination. It’s so written all over you. Everything you’re saying, and I know it’s easier to look back after we’ve been through something major like this, but everything you’re describing sounds so healthy, mentally and emotionally. What helped you get to that place in your life? What support system have you had? What learnings teaching along the way have you had that have helped you to create this mindset?

Pam Oliver:
I’ll tell you what helped me. When they were bookstores, it was a self-help section. That’s what helped me. I’m always trying to get better, I’m working on myself all the time, you just come across little nuggets here or there. My meditation practice kicked up, I spent more time on my faith and it just gave me this blanket of comfort. But I really work on myself, I still work on myself. I have a stack about this high. How big is this y’all, so the audience can?

Audrea Fink:
A foot? Maybe a foot? That’s like 10 books. Maybe more…

Pam Oliver:
That I’m always browsing through, taking notes from, I don’t think it ever stops trying to improve yourself. Trying to always prove yourself is different than trying to improve you. So I build this, not a wall, but I build this kind of force-field around me that says, “You can bring your ridiculousness.” You can try to bring, it’s like social media. I don’t really partake in that meanness. I just feel so saddened by the society that we’re in with social media that people feel good about really trying to bring somebody down. So I don’t partake, I don’t know what you said, I don’t know what’s trending. If there’s some stuff out there, my husband was like, “Oh, I just want school you on this.” But I think in general, just to answer your question a little bit better is that you at some point have to decide that, “Okay, I’m in this public arena, but I’m not going to be defined by this public arena.”

Pam Oliver:
You can have your opinion, totally entitled to it. And sit there and you can judge and criticize “Oh, the hair is not good. Oh, look at her makeup. She doesn’t have any lip gloss on. What’s that outfit she’s wearing? Why that coat? Why that hat?” And you know, I’ve got a job to do. I don’t have time for the foolishness. That’s the bottom line, I don’t have time for it, I have things to do.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
I love the force field.

Pam Oliver:
The force field. The PO force field.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
The PO force field.

Julie Holton:
It’s there.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
It’s very clear. This is the person who got me through certain decisions. And then when it happened to me when the, we don’t want you anymore came down. She shared that force field with me.

Pam Oliver:
Protect yourself.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
You have to, especially being in an arena like this. Like I said before, it is such a public arena, There is nothing you can do, which is why I find it so interesting because we circle back very quickly to something you said earlier, how you never made this about celebrity. And there are clearly individuals that make this about trying to get the most clicks on their Twitter page… And listen we are a social media thing.

Pam Oliver:
God bless them.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
I know that our social with regards to Think Tank of Three to blow up socially but with-

Audrea Fink:
It’s not about the celebrity.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:

It’s not about the celebrity.

Audrea Fink:
It’s about sending message out that we think will help other women.

Julie Holton:
Got to have the substance, Absolutely.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And the fact that Pam is not Twitter, not Instagram because she’s like, “No.” And I told her the other day, I was like, “How are you,” I said, “And yet you’re still killing it? You are no social and you are killing it still?”

Pam Oliver:
I just got on Facebook.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Woo.

Audrea Fink:
[inaudible 00:25:49] join our Facebook group?

Pam Oliver:
It’s that passe or something, I got to start somewhere. But I got on Facebook because I wanted to connect with some people. It’s been really valuable with that, but everything is private. First of all, I don’t know how to use it. I’m still trying to figure out, “Okay, how do you post? How do you send a picture?” On top of it, it’s another thing I don’t know why… because I’m private, I’m just really private, and I just want something to myself. That’s why I don’t really partake in social media to that extent. You don’t need to know what my dogs look like, they’re cute dogs. But do you really need to know what my dogs look like?

Audrea Fink:
Yes.

Pam Oliver:
And now if I post it’ll be a lot… okay.

Audrea Fink:
I would like to publicly remind you that you can never, ever post too many dogs pictures. I would also like to state that if you were to ever ask me, “Hey, do you want to see a photo of my dog?” There will never be a moment in which I don’t want to see a photo of your dog.

Pam Oliver:
Yeah, I have a lot… people show pictures of their kids and I’m like, “Oh, look at my dog. I got this great shot of my two animals.” But it’s not that I’m against it but it’s just I’m so private.

Audrea Fink:
[inaudible 00:27:09].

Pam Oliver:
I’m private in that way.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
You’re three dog parents.

Pam Oliver:
Yes, real fierce.

Audrea Fink:
Meanwhile, Reischea’s like, “Do you guys do anything but take photos of your dogs?”
Pam Oliver:

No.

Julie Holton:
And by the way, for anyone listening, who happens to wonder, should I let my morning TV news personality know that her dress isn’t quite the right shade for her, or her lip gloss is off a little bit. The answer is no.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
No.

Julie Holton:
Never need to message whether it be social media or Facebook or calling their newsroom because people think that that’s okay. And I don’t know why they started to think that’s okay. Unless you want us comment on your job, I don’t know.

Pam Oliver:
[crosstalk 00:27:57] some influence? Do you think your bosses hear that and listen to that and or influenced by that though, some time?

Audrea Fink:
They’re not.

Pam Oliver:
Okay, good.

Audrea Fink:
I don’t think so. I would hope I would hope not.

Pam Oliver:
I would hope not too.

Audrea Fink:
There’s this quote, it’s actually a Theodore Roosevelt quote, but this is Think Tank Three, it’s about women, So we’re going to take them sort of tweaked version from Brene Brown, where she talks about the woman in the arena. And she says, “It’s not the critic who counts. It’s not the woman who points out how the strong person stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the woman who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives vigilantly, who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming. But who does it effort without error and shortcoming, but who does actually strive to do the deeds? Who knows great enthusiasms, the greatest devotion who spends themselves in the worthy cause who at the best knows in the end, the triumph of the high achievement and who at the worst, if she fails, at least fails while daring greatly so that her place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who never knew victory nor defeat.”

This idea of the critic who has never been in your shoes is so meaningless, it’s so worthless. One of our previous guests, Nora Luke, I think it was Norah Luke, said, “My dad specifically said, why are you building this business?” And it for her was an affirmation. My dad is not going to understand a business I’m building for women, I should do it. The woman who stands there and says “Your hair isn’t perfect.” You come up here and be public, and get your hair perfect, right?

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
In the rain,

Pam Oliver:
In the rain, the humidity.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
In the snow.

Pam Oliver:
Oh, my goodness.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Crazy hot.

Audrea Fink:
While wearing heels.

Right, like trying to have a conversation using your brain while people are focused on the way you look. [crosstalk 00:29:59]

Reischea Canidate-Kapaouris:
Equipment everywhere.

Julie Holton:
I think it’s a step further for social media because as the owner of a marketing agency, here’s the deal, social media is whatever we want it to be. And so the people out there… And I get it, when you’re in a spotlight, like you are Pam, you don’t get to control the people who are leaving you comments. But women, we get to control what we comment and whether we like and share other people’s posts, how are your actions helping others? Purposely, I spend very little time on social media personally, except to, every single day, except some weekends, but I make the point to go through and like my friends’ posts when they have businesses, to share their content, to make sure that I’m supporting them.

If something looks like it was really heartfelt and deep and emotional, I’m showing it some love in some way, because I want to be encouraging and uplifting. And so we choose how we use social media, We can choose to find the positives in it, and then to stay connected and to support each other. So, it’s hard because we’re living in a world where people don’t all follow the same rules like we do, to live in positivity.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
People have lost their filters, straight up, lost their filters.

Pam Oliver:
And their decency.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And their decency.

Pam Oliver:
How about decency?

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And you go back to what our parents, all of our parents I’m uncertain in this group of ladies have said, “If you don’t have something good to say, and if it doesn’t help the situation, keep it shut.”

Pam Oliver:
Yep. Zip it. You mentioned a quote, there’s one by Eleanor Roosevelt that I’ve got printed out and I totally have it memorized that, “No one can make you feel bad about yourself without your permission.”

Julie Holton:
Yes.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Amen.

Pam Oliver:
Isn’t that great?

Audrea Fink:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Pam Oliver:
I love it. It’s a mantra almost at this point, because if you can’t get up off the turf, for the purposes of this conversation, because somebody said something mean about you, you’re in the wrong business. And you do develop a thick skin but in a healthy way, hopefully. Everything that I try to do, I always try to find the healthiest aspect of it. So if I have a thick skin, there’s a reason for that. You don’t like to be criticized, you don’t care for people to diminish your looks or things like that but I don’t give them permission to make me feel bad, you just don’t get that power. I don’t like it, but you don’t get the power just to bring me to my knees over a bad hat that day. Sorry brother, sister.

Audrea Fink:
Love it. Sorry, not sorry.

Pam Oliver:
So sorry, not sorry.

Audrea Fink:
So Pam what’s next for you? What’s on the horizon.

Pam Oliver:
You’ll hear from me. Let’s put it that way, you’ll hear from me.

Audrea Fink:
Cliff hanger.

Pam Oliver:
How about that?

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Intrigue. Intrigue….

Pam Oliver:
Yeah.

Julie Holton:
Sounds like another episode will be coming [inaudible 00:33:08].

Pam Oliver:
Right, because this is winding down. I understand that I’ve been given an opportunity to kind of finish things on my own terms and know when to go and getting to that point. I’m still passionate about the game and love what I do, but there is the next act, another chapter, literally. So you’ll hear from me. I’m too invested into my love of journalism just to completely walk away and say, “Okay, let me go do something totally different.” No, I want to continue to use my training, I want to help young students that I really, really enjoy that when they ask for advice, and especially when they listen. But something’s really disappointing. When I do go to colleges and talk to students, I always put my phone number and my email up there, and I’m right here from two people. I’m going, “Well that must’ve been really impactful,” but you have this opportunity, I’m right here, just give me a shout. Mm-mm (negative). It’s about brands and YouTube channels and some of like, “She’s a relic, what does she know?” But…

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
It was shock for me because when you gave me your phone number, I was like, “What? Really? You mean I can call?” And then I called and you answered. And I was like, “Pam Oliver is the best.”

Pam Oliver:
You know why I saw you, I saw how you handled yourself, I saw that you knew what you were doing and I encourage women like that. I gravitate towards them and I just want to take you in my arms and always protect you, however I could.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
I felt it.

Pam Oliver:
I was just like, “Oh, she’s one of us.” Because there’s one of us and then there’s a group that’s not one of us. And the ones who aren’t in the club, you know why you have not gained entry into the club. You got to prove it.

Audrea Fink:
I love what I just heard. If I can bastardize what you’re saying my own [inaudible 00:35:22]. Is you are putting your hand out and saying, “Come with me, I’ll take you. I’ll bring you with me.” This is like, you are the symbol of women empowering other women, it’s really amazing.

Pam Oliver:
Thank you. Thank you so much for that.

Julie Holton:
This has been so inspiring, I don’t want it to end.

Pam Oliver:
I don’t want it to end either.

Julie Holton:
Thank you so much for sharing all of you today. Before we go, we are collecting advice from successful women in our communities and sharing it in our Think Tank Forum. We’re going to put all of this together in some rapid fire Q&A with all of our guest and so you can look for that podcast coming soon. So we have three rapid fire questions for you Pam, are you ready?

Pam Oliver:
Okay, I’m ready. Oh-oh. Yes.

Julie Holton:
All right, here we go. Is there a lesson that you recently learned that you wished you had learned earlier in your career?

Pam Oliver:
Yes.

Audrea Fink:
You can elaborate.

Pam Oliver:
Oh, I’m supposed to elaborate?

Julie Holton:
Leave it to the journalist to call me out on that question….

Pam Oliver:
Yes. Oh, boy. Well, you’re always learning lessons, but I think just one thing for me is just understanding that it’s okay that if I’m not feeling well that day or if I don’t feel at my best, I love the word excellence just because of what it means and how it sounds and how it rolls off the tongue, and I always come up short, it feels like I always come up short. So given myself, “Okay, maybe that wasn’t what you wanted, but let’s not beat yourself up.” The lesson is if I could have told myself when I was in my 20s that you’ll never get to a point where you feel like you’ve arrived, then that’s okay, that’s a good thing. Because it makes you hungry, and that your work, makes you stay on top of it but again, try to keep everything in a healthy perspective.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
What advice would you offer to any career woman?

Pam Oliver:
I would say just know that your best is good enough. Your best is good enough, but you’ve got to have the backing, you’ve got to have put in the work, you have to know your report, you have to have your bases covered as far as that goes. But your best is good enough and you should be able to put your hand down on the pillow and say, “You know what? I did my best today.” You’re not really not going to succeed every single day, but hey, that’s a good positive place to be. But that’s what I believe, that would be something I would tell a career woman.

Audrea Fink:
This is the best rapid fire ever. This might be its own podcast.

Pam Oliver:
Apparently, I don’t understand the term rapid fire. I’m like, “Wah wah wah wah.”

Julie Holton:
I’m just over here taking notes.

Audrea Fink:
Right? I’m writing it all down.

Julie Holton:
Right? This is good.

Pam Oliver:
I guess I’m a little long-winded for rapid-fire. So next time I’m on your podcast let’s skip this section.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And there will be a next time.

Pam Oliver:
Okay.

Audrea Fink:
Also, you should know, we’re all long-winded. So this is how we all do this. Okay, last rapid fire question, whatever that means. In today’s professional setting, what do you think the most important skill for a woman is?

Pam Oliver:
Just try to be as complete as you can possibly be, as complete as you can be in whenever avenue, how you show up what you bring to the table. Just trying to aim for that, being complete and whatever your profession is, whatever it is you do, what your strengths and weaknesses are, address those, the Kobe rules. If people want to know more about that, I read that the other day and I found it so powerful. He had just a number of rules about just being your best it all comes back to that but being complete, just being a complete person, being complete businesswoman, being a complete podcaster, whatever the avenue is, just be well-rounded as much as you can be.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Awesome.

Pam Oliver:
That’s the edit part.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Awesome.

Pam Oliver:
Be as well-rounded, as you could possibly be.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
What was the book you just said?

Pam Oliver:
It’s called the Kobe rules.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Oh, the Kobe Rules?

Pam Oliver:
Yeah, the Kobe Rules. There are a number, I haven’t memorized them yet, but of course he talks about, know your strengths and know your weaknesses and addressing those. But what’s really cool the is Philadelphia Eagle put the Kobe Rules up near their locker room with a big picture of him. And so it was powerful enough that an entire football organization wanted players to walk by that those Kobe rules every day. And as they went into the locker room and came out of the locker room. So I’m digging that right now.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Awesome. Pam, thank you so much.

Pam Oliver:
Thank you for having me.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
It has been an absolute pleasure. Now I know that you’re not a huge social media fan, just introducing yourself to Facebook. When that next thing happens, you’re going to have to publicize.

Pam Oliver:
You want people to know.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
We going to want people to know. So whenever that next thing is about to come up, that’s when you’re going to have to… that’s when-

Pam Oliver:
You have to play the game.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
You’re going to have to enter the realm you’re going to have to enter the realm.

Pam Oliver:
Okay. All right.

Julie Holton:
Facebook is a great place to start Pam, You’re in the right place.

Pam Oliver:
Okay, I’ll get on Instagram as soon as we log off.

Audrea Fink:
Oh, that is my jam.

Pam Oliver:
It is? Why?

Audrea Fink:
Because dog photos, I follow all of the dogs on the internet, all of them. My husband mocks me constantly because we go on vacation and I don’t have internet access. Then as soon as you get back to reception, I’m on Instagram and he’s like, “They’re not going to know that you haven’t seen them in a week.” “They will, they need to know I love them.”

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
It’s love, it’s good.

Julie Holton:
And Pam, we’ll add you into our private community on Facebook. So that it’s a private group. So anyone who wants to give and share within that group, we don’t have to friend people, we don’t have to connect on personal ages, but within that group, we can share and share comments and photos, and we’ll be sharing this podcast there.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
The Think Tank of Three Facebook pages is a good place for you to delve your foot to a public private, because it literally is only, you have to be allowed into our group.

Pam Oliver:
Oh, okay. You going to have to walk me through that.

Audrea Fink:
Done.

Pam Oliver:
Or your kids. Your kids can walk you through that.

Audrea Fink:
She just called you out.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Alex is my hookup on all things tech these days, so my husband, so I’m all right. Hey, but listen. Thank you, thank you so much for joining us today. And, just being a part of the Think Tank of Three. You are an inspiration, you are amazing, and I’m just honored that you would give us your time hon.

Pam Oliver:
I enjoyed it so much talking to three, very, very intelligent women. I wish I knew you other two better but I think we’re connected at this point, but I really, really appreciate the opportunity to have an intelligent conversation.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
Awesome. Well, we can’t wait to hear more from you because you are going to come back because we’re going to have to have a follow-up on the intrigue, but that is all for this episode of Think Tank of Three.

Audrea Fink:
If you have topics you’d like us to cover, or guests you’d like to hear from, send us a message at thinktankofthree@gmail.com. Subscribe to the Think Tank of Three wherever you listen to podcasts and connect with us online. We blog weekly at thinktankofthree.com.

Julie Holton:
Follow us on social media. You can find us individually on LinkedIn and there’s ThinkTankofThree on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Women, click to join our private group on Facebook, where we can all share advice and articles.

Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris:
And if you liked what you heard in the podcast, share it. You can find Think Tank of Three on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, Amazon Music and SoundCloud.

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Photo of Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris

As with all things that are of true destiny, Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris believes, you don’t find your career, sometimes your career finds you.

Armed with the gift of gab and a natural feel for writing, broadcasting found it’s way into Reischea’s world after she…

As with all things that are of true destiny, Reischea Canidate-Kapasouris believes, you don’t find your career, sometimes your career finds you.

Armed with the gift of gab and a natural feel for writing, broadcasting found it’s way into Reischea’s world after she graduated from the University of Southern California.

Reischea’s television career began in her hometown of Fresno, California, at then KJEO, channel 47. Her experience at the CBS affiliate was
invaluable; as she worked her way up from a sports intern, to sports producer/reporter, to full-time weekend sports anchor/reporter. That
experience propelled her to San Diego as the weekend sports anchor/reporter for KSWB, where she got her first opportunity to cover
professional sports teams on a regular basis in the Chargers and Padres.

In 2002 she was hired as the weekend sports anchor/reporter for FOX 5 WNYW in New York. There, Reischea was nominated for a New York
Local Emmy for her three-part series on “Diminishing African American’s in Baseball” in 2007. She was also given the opportunity to work on the
station’s community affairs show, Good Day Street talk where topics ranged from post 9/11 stress disorders, healthcare, music and more.
In 2008 opportunity knocked again, this time taking her to Bristol, Connecticut to join ESPN. While with the network, Reischea was able to
interview and interact with some of the biggest athletes and stars on the planet, which made for a pretty awesome experience.

After the birth of her awesome son, Agisi, Reischea focused full-time on the hardest job she’s ever had, being a Mom. But the television love never
went away and so she was able to slide in news anchoring with News12 Connecticut for a short time.

Fast forward to the addition of an amazing daughter, Chrisonia, and that center stone in her life, family, proved to be of necessary focus. As a Mom
of 2 and a wife to a phenomenal husband, Alexandros, Reischea has learned the dynamics of life are ever-changing. Now, focusing on her own
self-empowerment, Reischea is taking her experience in broadcast and bridging it over to a new adventure in the podcast world as a co-host on
Think Tank of Three.